[Anjae]

I don't have a problem with anger. I am not one of the LBS who was anger free early on. In my case it was more furious than angry. Still, I didn't name call and didn't come to HS name calling and spewing insults on other members.

Anger is useful if used the right away. Problematic if it lands us in court or jail, or we never let go of it. Same with name calling, if lands you in court, it is a problem not a benefit for the LBS.

In real life, at least here, LP, the name calling and hate would had landed a few LBS in court. So would having a site owner saying there is nothing wrong with name calling and allowing members to name call and hate.

[OffRoad]

The stages of Grief. Anyone remember them?
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance.
These are the ones I agree with, I understand there can be more. I don't know about the rest of you, but I didn't move through these in a linear fashion. I did Denial, Depression, anger, bargaining, anger, denial, anger, depression, anger, depression, acceptance, anger, depression, anger, acceptance.

My MLCER does not have an "ow", it appears work is his op. I still get angry from time to time. If I had to deal with an op, forced to deal with it on a regular basis,  being force to send my kids to be with her, I'd be angry. And I GET TO BE ANGRY!!!! It's not the being angry that is the issue, no one gets to tell us how we feel. It's how we, as individuals DEAL with that anger that matters. Do we feel angry and let it pass? Do we lash out at others who don't believe the same as we do? Do we vent in a safe place so we don't do something foolish in real life?  Do we allow our anger to control us?

There is nothing wrong with anger. There is nothing wrong with venting our anger with a snide name from time to time. I'll own being petty from time to time, it doesnt make me a bad person. There is nothing wrong with cycling around and having our anger revisit us.  And sometimes, what looks like anger is fear and sadness and the helplessness of the unfairness of it all. Who doesn't need a "I get that." when those feelings hit us?

We get through to acceptance on our own timeline, not anyone else's. No one is less than because the op is still in their life and won't go away and they are still angry or hurt or sad.

For those of you who are human, and have an ow/om and you still hurt, you have my deepest sympathy, I give you virtual hugs, and hope you make your way to joy at whatever speed it takes for you to get there. I grok venting as a way to work through things.

[lawprofessor]

No Anjae, you don't have a problem with anger as a human emotion.  What I see at times is that people misconstrue your desire to discuss and debate a topic with your being angry or bitter.  You and I have had some very productive and interesting debates over the years yet none degenerated into either of us calling the other names or calling for moderation from RCR.

I don't claim to understand the reasoning behind the latest purple post.  It seems more of the attempt to balance and give the impression of understanding all sides in hopes of defending the underdog. Same old story we've seen play out before.

Anjae, you've stepped up into a void and been kicked over and over again for your efforts.  It's not changing or stopping.  So when will you either change your behavior/approach or just live with being kicked and not having your efforts appreciated. 

The message seems clear to me at this point.  Will you keep banging your head on the brick wall?

Lp

[Onward]

I agree with everything LP said.
Which does not happen every day.
Maybe even only today. 
But I do agree. 
Anger is a useful emotion. I personally find it's better to use it than to live in it.

[Anjae]

I remember the stages of grief. However, I no longer recall the order. It was too long ago.

Anger and hate are not the same thing. A lot around here is hate, not anger. Some can be fear and not anger. But hate is huge and has been of late.


Do we feel angry and let it pass? - some do and some never felt anger, Mitz, for example.

Do we lash out at others who don't believe the same as we do? - some do. not a very good idea, but it happens a lot.

Do we vent in a safe place so we don't do something foolish in real life? - excellent idea. a journal is a good place to do so. Or a HS personal thread with our usual "warning venting".

Do we allow our anger to control us? - some, like their MLCers do. not a good option.


I truly do not get the name calling, so I cannot say I get it. I do not swear. Be it on HS or in real life.

I also do not understand why people still call names to OW/OM many years down the road and are still angry at OW/OM, but often have no anger toward the MLCer. And LBS whose spouse is married to OW/OM should stay away from their ex-spouse and their new spouse. Nothing good will come of meddling in such relationship.


LP, I don't think it is wrong to want respect. RCR was unfair. Nothing new, happens all the time. I don't like unfairness. You may be fine with being called names, but I am not.

Yes, you and I like to debate and have done so many times without any name calling. Of late HS members aren't that much found of debate.


Well, if LBS want to dive into the abyss, be my guest.

[lawprofessor]

Onward, 

Thank you. I don't suppose the newer people get your point but I found the subtle humor wonderful.  And I'd hope you continue to make me think as always.

Lp


 

I agree with everything LP said.
Which does not happen every day.
Maybe even only today. 
But I do agree. 
Anger is a useful emotion. I personally find it's better to use it than to live in it.

[Penelope2018]

Well 1T, I have had limited experiences with OW. She was an employee of ours who I had met and periodically worked with for about a month. I left to see a relative who was ill and actually died the next day, and she and xh started their affair up right after. She lives in my xh's home country which is considered third world or developing. I am from the US. Anyways, at the beginning I was extremely angry with this woman, so much so that I envisioned her dying painfully numerous times (still do occasionally). I couldn't wrap my head around how a person I had just interacted with, went to lunch with a few times, and knew I left to essentially bury my Grandmother, would get involved with my then h. It was mind boggling. Still is. Nevermind what xh did. Words couldn't even express that pain.

As for name calling, I have one for xh Inuse occasionalIy. Can't be said here lol. Generally I refer to her as a prostitute which she is. Or maybe a more accurate word would be sugar baby? I think that's the new age term for a prostitute who doesn't walk the streets. At the time she and xh started their nonsense, she had just moved out of an apartment that she lived in with another guy and I was told, another girl, who was supposedly that guy's gf. That proved not to be true later on. He was her bf. She was also engaged to another guy from her home village who worked in South Korea. That's what she told xh. I'm not too sure that guy was actually going to marry her or if he was using her as well. She would send XH pics of the money that guy sent her and constantly bragged about her soon being a SK citizen. Which I know she was only saying to push xh quicker to divorce. You know, before this hot commodity gets snatched up! And later on around the time xh wanted to reconcile, she sent him screenshots of their break up and how that guy begged and cried for her. She told xh he was harassing her and her responses to that guy were so cold. Like stilted responses. We're done. Leave me alone. Things like that. It was disgusting. I realized immediately, well I already knew, that she was trying to catch any guy that would take her out of her country. She didn't really care about anyone. And later of course when xh would tell her he didn't want to marry, all of these suitors would come out ofnthe woordwork. Her dad wants to marry her to a guy in Oman, a doctor from the UK was interested in marrying lol. You'd think her motive would be obvious to xh, but he didn't care as they usually don't. As long as the drug works, nothing else matters.

I found out recently a person who I thought was someone else's wife I had accepted a friend request from was actually her. So she had stalked my FB page for two years. Once I unfriended her, she made a new id and tried to add me again    I don't even know what to say about that.

She's your typical OW. Deranged, destructive, manipulative, et cetera. Threatens to kill herself occasionally, threatens to tell everything to xh's family, you know the drill. Marry me or I'll try my damndest to destroy you. Funny thing is only she would look the fool to his family. Doing something like that may even impact her ever being allowed to return to her parent's home if xh's family informed them. They're from a very different culture. But again they may support it if they think it'll get them a one way ticket outta poverty and into the US. Idk. They have to know there's no way she can afford to stay in Dhaka, pay rent for a decent apartment, have a new phone, new laptop, new clothes et cetera on any wage she could obtain there with no degree. In fact, I pitied her a bit for that reason. I wondered how far I would go if I lived in a third world country in their version of upper poverty. Would I mess a married guy if he was the equivalent of the recent one billion dollar lotto ticket? I don't think I would, but I'd be a different person. In her lifetime, she will never get another chance with a guy like xh. So her claws are sunk in deep. Like I said before, I honestly believe he could beat her and she wouldn't leave him. He certainly verbally abuses her.

Yes, I mulled over lots of things regarding her, but I know none of it matters. She could've been anyone. In the gist of things, she's nothing. She doesn't care about anyone and it may be no one in this world truly cares about her either. It shouldn't bring me comfort but it does. She will likely never know true joy or happiness in her life. Only suspicion, paranoia, and hatred because based on their messages, I know she certainly can't stand me.

[lawprofessor]

Anjae, no it's not wrong to want respect. 

Yes, I am not fond of unfairness.

Yes, the purple post was not seemingly fair.

However, as you've said before it's her site and she runs it as she chooses. Based on history of behavior, you know how these things are addressed. 

Yes, I don't care if someone on an anonymous forum calls me a name.  It rarely happened directly to me but behind my back mostly. 

Expectations. 

We are told not to have them in relation to the behavior of the MLCer.  I find that applies to dealing with other situations in life as well. 

I don't expect fairness when past history has shown patterns of unfairness/illogical reasoning as is true in the case at hand.

I simply choose not to invest my time or emotion where it is not appreciated. 

Some battles are not win-able.

Some wins are not worth the price paid.

Both are true here as nothing will change based on history.  So the only two choices are banging ones head on a wall or changing ones behavior and expectations that I can see once one has said their piece.
 
I know who and what I am and I'm at peace with that.  What another says about me is irrelevant to my life.

Lp

[megogirl]

I find this discussion absurd—in-fighting about whether you an have a Topic Discussion about the alienator.! Seriously people! Of course you can.

RCR, it's totally absurd.

If the alienator doesn't like to be called a hooker, well then maybe she shouldn't act like one.  It's just that simple.

[Anjae]

A little while ago something changed for the better. It seems now it went back to what it used to be.

Sure, RCR can run her forum as she wishes. But if a forum owner writes a code of conduct and tells people they have to abide by it, said forum owner cannot fall upon those that are following it and say nothing to those who are violating it.

Or they can, but they are being illogical and making the Code of Conduct they created void. It would make sense to tell us if we should, or should not, follow said Code of Conduct and Mission Statement as we were told we had in March.

Today it seems it was not longer important to do so. Clarification would be important.

There is a minimum of expectations we all have in life. Same for being in a forum that states the inconditionals aplly to everyone and has rules. One expects those things to be followed.

OK, maybe that is to expect too much logic. 


I'll give it to some of you, you have MLCers with very complicated OWs. However, maybe what should be asked is why are your MLCers with those women. What does the MLCer gains from such relationships? Still, the LBS cannot change the relationship between MLCer and OW/OM.

All the LBS can do, in case of need, is too protect his/herself and kids.

As a general rule, OW/OM is the person who was willing to be OW/OM.