[megogirl]

We've had, over time, a few come back to answer our questions.

Oh I KNOW --- Denjef31 has opened my eyes X a million.  Stayed's H has been really invaluable, too.  Not sure what Chuck has to offer....but I'd imagine they're pretty sick of it all.

Still, I hang onto every word.  And I daresay they're the ONLY things that have kept me Standing for this long (?!)

[Thunder]

I know we do, don't we?

Mego, I think it's ok to have hope in your heart, because you never know, but just try not to have high expectations it will happen.

Expectations are what we want to put at zero until we see some kind of change, and even then be cautious.
They do cycle a lot during this crisis.  What may look like positive change could just be them cycling and still confused.

Just take good care of yourself and your son.  Only look for any consistent changes and protect your heart.
You've been hurt enough.

[megogirl]

I hear you, Thunder!!

I have often wondered what it would take to lift my middle finger?!  Because God only knows I've come close.....and still just might.

Re-marriage?  Baby?  Who the hell knows.  The possibilities are downright frightening.

Just glad to know that his swimmers are failing him, at least until now (?!)

[Thunder]

You're right it is frightening, and I understand your fears.  They are real and I'm sorry for that.  I guess most of us have been there.  Fearing the unknown.

No one knows how far they will take this ridiculous, awful relationship, but you have no control over it.

All you can do is try to detach from him and live your life the best you can.
There are no other options right now.

It does get easier with time. Not great, but easier.

One never knows if they will sense us slipping away, until it happens.

[barbiedoll]

I will tell you what my husband told the therapist when she asked him what made him return ... I was sitting there listening.

1. He said he NEVER wanted to leave in the 1st place.  ( well...I can say bullsh%t to that , trust me ) but...what I suspect he meant was that he just lost control of himself, his life and his mental health. I guess.

2. He said that when OW told him that she was "sooo in love with him"...it shocked something in him and he said to himself "love ? WTF? WTF am I doing?".  He told her that he had to find away to return home. She ignored that statement apparently.

3. He told the therapist that he always felt a "rope or cord" running between us and he felt it was NOT yet broken . (?)

4. He also told the therapist that he FELT NOTHING for a very long time... and suddenly he started to feel fear . FEAR of what he had done and fear he would never be able to fix it. He describes being in "shock" of what he had done and the man he became.

I have no true idea what happened. I saw him a week earlier and confronted him about his affair that I finally figured out. He denied , denied denied like the fabulous liar he had become. I absolutely "knew", so I simply ignored his denial until he finally admitted it. I sent him an email and in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS told him that NEVER would I lay eyes on him again as long as I lived, told him his stuff was packed, the name of my lawyer and bank account was closed , locks changed etc etc ... within 2 hours ( maybe less ) he was at my work place begging me to please forgive him and over and over he said " what have I done , what have I done".  That's my story in a nutshell .

[Not Applicable]

Fear of losing me (because I was really ready to leave him) has motivated my husband to get his act together several times during his crisis. Expressing my feelings positive or negative has not made any difference at all and may even have made him more stubborn and recalcitrant at times.

[Standing Strong]

Barbie and Gone,
I think MLC H's are different than MLC W's.... but do you think they have to get to a certain point before you can spook them?

How long were they in before you threatened to kick them out of your lives forever?

Thanks!

-SS

[Trustandlove]

This is again somewhat different, but I truly don't think that fear of losing US is what does it, it is something more internal.  Now for some perhaps it really is fear of losing us, but for many I think it more fear of facing themselves.

Years ago a well-meaning person told my H that other men were interested in me; my H then wrote to say that at first that felt weird, but that he would now fully embrace this and "we" could go forward, being friends, etc. 

I set him straight and said that there wasn't anyone else, that my choice would be to repair our marriage and family, but that was actually besides the point. 

As I learned later, as more and more info on his crisis came out, it was more that he thought that if I had someone else it would justify everything he had done, and he wouldn't have to account for any of it, he figured he wouldn't have to pay, that it was all OK.  A minimising of the impact of the huge trauma his behaviour had caused.  That he had "got away" with it all. 

If we really are done, then it doesn't matter if we spook them or not, we're done. 

And I don't think there is any particular timeline on how long it takes for them to feel anything in particular; what I described above was done after something like 2 years; my own experience shows that it is still all inside them, even if we do, like I have, get to see some of the process at times.  And I have seen all sorts of things in the past decade. 

That, in my opinion, doesn't change the fact that it is still up to us to become the best person we can be, and that means doing what is necessary to keep our finances in order, look at our own behaviour towards everyone in our lives, and keep learning. 

Perhaps by doing so we are a type of lighthouse, the port in the storm, but that also means having firm boundaries and learning how to communicate those politely.  If I have learned anything is that appeasement never works, and while nothing may "make" our spouses find their way to us, if they do we need to be strong and worthy of respect.

And the lovely thing about that is that it truly does make us "better" in all areas of life, be it with our children, our jobs, our friends, and so on. 

My own only answer to my H about why I don't have anyone else has been that I get to choose how I live my life, and that having someone else isn't the only definition of happiness. 

Now my H may choose to view that as pathetic at the moment (I actually don't know anything about what is in his head any more), but that could also change, and I don't know what could trigger that change, but it is very possible that it could be something very little, something unrelated to anything else, and if that happens we will see what kind of person he is then. 

[UrsaMajor]

If I have learned anything is that appeasement never works, and while nothing may "make" our spouses find their way to us, if they do we need to be strong and worthy of respect.

And the lovely thing about that is that it truly does make us "better" in all areas of life, be it with our children, our jobs, our friends, and so on. 

This is GOSPEL truth..... and goes back to the fact that tit is THEIR crisis, there is nothing we can do to propel them through it faster but a lot we can do to prolong it (and thereby our own pain), that "MLC-spotting" and "stage watching" is a total waste of our time and energy, and that it is our job to do our own mirror work, proceed with our own growth, and live our own lives for us (and our kids if applicable).  IF the MLC'er decides to return after some time and IF we decide that the Version of them is someone we are still interested in having in our lives and IF the person we have grown into is still someone the MLC'er wants in THEIR lives, THEN, there is a possibility (NOT a guarantee) that reconnection can begin which COULD (again, possible but no guarantees) lead to reconciliation.

BUT we need to do our own work, we need to have our own intrinsic growth.....

[Songanddance]

OK we have to be careful here as some of these responses have started up the concept of a precise timeline again.

In MLC there is no linear timeline ither than the natural passing of the years

Barbie - your H returned quickly and in his conversation to your T talked honestly about the rope/cord and that he never wanted to leave.    He also mentioned the feeling of nothing.

This is what is actually more important and the clear sign of the depression core of MLC.  Generally people who are depressed feel nothing about the others closest to them. 

Stayed's H' return was fairly quick (short time with OW) but it took a long time before truly reconciled.   
RCR's H's return were many, to and fro claiming he wanted RCR but still had OW and the whole thing took several years....   Barbie's H's return may have been quick (yet again short time with OW) but it has been a very turbulent time for her and still not settled.
HB's H returned after several years but she also had a crisis herself.

There is no finite action that determines whether or why the MLCer quits.  It is a waste of energy to hang on and see if there is anything you can do to to expedite that action. It will happen if and when it happens.  Remember even if they do "quit" MLC there is no guarantee that they will return.
If they do - what do they return to?  A vengeful spouse who wants to control the return or a person that is whole, grown and still growing and fully cognisant of their own values?

I have no idea when my H is going to quit his crisis; there are signs but they are just not strong enough and this is 6 yrs in.  I may quit before he does

Either way ,the timeline - if you must obsess over it-  for any "quitting" is not 2 or even 3 years because that might mark the end of replay; it does not mark the end of escape and avoid followed by liminality and reconnection  (if they choose to). 

Stayed once told me to prepare for 5 years of escape and avoid and if he reconnects another 5 years to reconcile.  I remember shaking my head - saying no chance!  And where am I? Still standing after 6 yrs.   This was with my H who never left home - is a high clinger and still cannot face what he has done.   

I am fairly convinced that even if I were to move away or do something dramatic like sue for divorce he would prefer to accept that  because it's easier than fighting for our marriage which would require his self reflection, and personal growth. That for some MLCers is just too hard.

Returns are few and all the LBS can do is stop thinking about actions that help make them quit but get on with your life living it the best way possible - protecting your finances,  self growth and finding your own way through life.