[Not Applicable]

There's a lot of comments I want to respond to here but I am on my phone so I am not quoting. I want to thank brain for the reenactment article. I can see my husband reenacting his childhood from several angles mentioned in the article simultaneously and ow plays a role in that from several angles. I also see that aging issues and childhood issues are not mutually exclusive as causes and manifestations of mlc. My husband explicitly acknowledges aging issues. Yet his behavior screams childhood issues, and he refused to recognize that. Mlc operates at a conscious and unconscious level. That Anje acknowledges aging issues but not childhood ones does not mean she necessarily experienced something devoid of childhood issues

[lawprofessor]

Another thing I find interesting, RCR created HS with a sample size of one, her husband. HB start writing about MLC with a sample size of two, her husband and herself. They're considered MLC "gospel". Yet, several of us have far bigger real life sample sizes than RCR or HB, yet, what we say the real life MLCers we know told us and/or our own experience, is often dismissed because it does not fit HS main narrative. Cleary and logically, one cannot take from granted a sample size or one or two and totally discart bigger sample sizes.

Anjae, very true.  This is what I meant when I talked about feeling that there was a time when older timers like myself needed to step back so those coming after had the space to make their own theories and express them in ways that made sense to themselves and a new generation of LBS'S.

For example, over 4 years ago I wrote posts about one of the purposes of the OW from my perspective.  Now I read another generation expressing many of the same thoughts with up to date references and wording. 

As a second example, I wrote many years ago about part of the purpose of MLC for both parties was to grow up and mature.  Now another thread is discussing that. 

I'm not angry none of the current posters referenced me.  I'm thrilled to see they are thinking and progressing towards healing and making sense for themselves of this mess.  That's what is important. 

In time, just as we did, another generation will come to see the folly of putting too much stock in a very base theory that has not been adapted to newer developments and additional evidence, including larger sample sizes.

Each person gets the message only when they are ready to receive it.  Ready has all kinds of variables including when the person is emotionally stable and mature enough to hear it and when its relevant to their own situation. 

For me where I am now, the hero worship and some of the constant buttressing of discussion with early writings seems immature.  But that's about where I am now.  Where the poster is, is a different place, and where I once was, so I try to have patience and plant an idea that may flower at a later date or if not, that's OK too.  Ego isn't involved. 

It's like my post to Thundarr using more existentialist rambling examples.  He got what I was saying in seconds of reading it.  I used an approach tailored to him.  It's OK if no one else got it because he did and we had quite a long in depth private set of fruitful discussions with many results.

Your observations are just as valid as anyone else's and are part of the body of study and evidence.  The seeds are planted.  Now patiently allow them to grow for you never know who will be the next generation that will add to your points. 

We sometimes forget Rome wasn't built in a day and it's lonely at times being a lone voice in the wilderness.  Been there and done that.  But my time came and went.  It's others time now.

Lp

[Acorn]

LP, do you happen to have a link for the following?  If not, I shall go look for a needle in the haystack when I have the time. 

For example, over 4 years ago I wrote posts about one of the purposes of the OW from my perspective.  Now I read another generation expressing many of the same thoughts with up to date references and wording. 

As a second example, I wrote many years ago about part of the purpose of MLC for both parties was to grow up and mature.  Now another thread is discussing that.   

Added later:

MLC theory is just that.  A theory.  It is based on personal observations and anecdotes. Hardly objective or scientific.  Besides, you see what want to see.  Humans are very adroit in cherry picking in general, to suit our subconscious agenda. 

To take the theory as gospel truth and extrapolate the same or similar travel path and/or outcome as seen in RCR, HB and Conway’s cases, is perhaps naive at best, delusional at worst.  Just my opinion.

When does a theory become a quasi-religion one believes and invest trust in?  A question I asked myself often, especially when I was despondent and wanted to hang onto some hope. 

Sorry, Anon, I got off the original intent of the thread.
There is probably a thread regarding the veracity of MLC theory somewhere... 

[Not Applicable]

SHE is the only one that can do this ...NOT a wife. The wife has been put in a spot of protection...from him . Now, I wept thru this entire conversation and dismissed most of what he said ...because what sh%t is this ?

This is more or less what my H told me in the beginning. He needed a slave, a servant, someone to put up with his nastiness (his own description). He didn't want it to be me. He respected me too much and really it is clear he was trying to protect me from his own demons (which were manifesting themselves in the form of his father. Sure, you can say it is a twisted way of protecting me but definitely OW gets the short end of the stick in that regard. I at least could stand up to monster when he was at his worst. She had to put up or shut up.

I just wanted to say Barbie too that you really sound like you have come a long way in understanding what is going on with your H and I hope that brings you some relief from all the mental turmoil you have suffered from.

[Not Applicable]

The ow can't suddenly start making the MLCer feel bad about their choices or standards. That is not the position she was hired for.  She either has to put up with the mediocre crumbs she was happy getting at the beginning or get out.  The crumbs at the beginning probably felt better because he wasn't looking over his shoulder at me.

I agree with this 100%. I have seen the same.

As for the question that started this thread, I think saying that the MLCer must get involved in another relationship is like saying someone who was hit by a car and killed had to be hit so that they would die. Everyone dies. That doesn't mean we have to die a certain way for it to happen. It makes me very uncomfortable when people talk about the "purpose" of MLC. Yes, the MLC has its causes and effects that we can observe. That does not mean it is something purposeful.

[sachat3]

SHE is the only one that can do this ...NOT a wife. The wife has been put in a spot of protection...from him . Now, I wept thru this entire conversation and dismissed most of what he said ...because what sh%t is this ?

This is more or less what my H told me in the beginning. He needed a slave, a servant, someone to put up with his nastiness (his own description). He didn't want it to be me. He respected me too much and really it is clear he was trying to protect me from his own demons

I hope quoting worked on my phone. I say the same about Clington. I’ve never had monster from him and I had a row with him where we argued and I said “you don’t respect me” and he told me “that’s where your wrong your probably the person I respect the most”

[Not Applicable]

Well I got monster, but the difference was I could stand up to monster and get away with it. Monster would just tell OW if she didn't like it, she could leave. That her purpose was to be under his shoe (just as his father said to his mother or so I have been told by his mother). He very rarely responded that way to me.

[Treasur]

I like LPs point that our own posts add to the legacy which is there for others coming behind us. Some discussions are repeated and challenged and built on too as LP says.

All of us LBS are far from objective of course and that must skew our perspective sometimes when as Acorn says we cherry pick what we want to see....also part of the process. And some of us may have little information about our spouses life, perspective or ow/om.  Most of us come here trying to find an explanation for our spouses not just leaving us or having affairs...those things are painful but not abnormal...what we struggle with is HOW they leave us, how they become so different, why their behaviour seems to get worse or more extreme no matter how we respond and why our life suddenly feels invaded by insane soap opera stuff or a raging irrational spouse that goes on and on. Often I think we FEEL that something is really weird, more than can be explained by just someone having an affair or no longer loving us....and that brings us here.

The baseline writings of RCR and HB and other info on depression et al are a starting place....and then each of us learns as we go and reaches our own conclusion about what happened in our lives over time. There is a comfort but perhaps also a risk in assuming that any one take, any one story, any one example necessarily translates directly into our own experience....that is part of the winnowing and balancing as we detach and learn. And also imho part of the great benefits of vets posting with the perspective of time and less emotion. I have learned a lot from reading old threads but it is also true that there were times when I was ready to see things differently that I could not earlier.

[Still Half full]

I’m finding this really interesting

Barbiedoll - what a post, thank you for sharing that, I always read your thread but reading this condensed version was so emotional

I really don’t believe my MLCH has any childhood traumas that he needs to work through, he’s had a pretty charmed life, but I think that means he hasn’t developed any coping skills, so when MLC depression hit he behaved out of character ( the affair ) and now cannot face himself

His ow is similar to many described here,  she gives him absolute adoration, because she wants to be part of his interesting life. I always appreciated my H, we couldn’t have children and we always did everything together and he knew how much I loved him, but after the loss of my mum, which I think affected him more than he realised and made him consider his own ageing,  and my long term illness kicking in, which he uses as the reason he had the affair, he states he missed me and was bored because I was ill 😳 ow gave him her full attention and the rest is history. It’s strange though, my H always said he didn’t like that he felt like I had him on a pedestal, I don’t think I did, I just appreciated him and having such a lovely relationship, but ow’s adoration must have filled a space that I didn’t because I was ill

I think now she is just an easy path that helps him avoid himself. I’m confident their relationship won’t last ( even though it’s been many years ) because I think deep down he blames her and hates her as much as he hates himself, I feel like I think he feels like he ‘deserves’ to be with someone who isn’t great.  I’m sure once he finds his strength he will end it, but I don’t think he will ever have the strength to return to me, he hates what he’s done to me. But, for now, the affair with ow is an easy option that enables his avoidance

[Nerissa]

“It’s strange though, my H always said he didn’t like that he felt like I had him on a pedestal, I don’t think I did, I just appreciated him and having such a lovely relationship, but ow’s adoration must have filled a space that I didn’t because I was ill “

From a ‘depth psychology’ perspective, the opposite may be the truth - that your H doesn’t consciously recognise:  it is perfectly possible that he is projecting; that he views you as belonging on  kind of pedestal (idealising you) and when you fell ill, you showed that you are not superhuman and may be as weak as the next person.  This unconscious disappointment leads to devaluation.  Now if it is in purpose.

In addition, a lot of people have charmed lives and their early years were less than optimal in child development terms.  You have no way of truly knowing what his earliest months were like.  As parents it is inevitable that we all unwittingly let our children down in ways we don’t recognise .