[terra]

For what it’s worth, I get a lot of verbal micro-focus from both MLC h and the teens in my midst. So it may also be part of the lesson at midlife for us to become either more flexible in understanding the spirit of language used by others, as well as to become more sure of what we believe language means and how to use it most effectively and for the greatest good.

For what it’s worth also, it’s taken me years to get my head around certain Standing concepts and I am still learning the most basic things today.

FOR THE NEWBIES:

You may be told to read here and keep reading and rereading. Just know that sometimes you will hear or read what seems like the same advice or story repeatedly, and it may take several reads at random intervals before suddenly what was said makes sense to you and feels true and natural.

My best approach to all of this is what others often say: Take what you need and what is right for you.

We make mistakes along the way, but that’s how we learn sometimes. If something offends, it’s possible that’s a good opportunity for you to delve deeper into your own whats and whys, which I feel is an essential part (maybe the *most* essential part) of this long life process.

That’s said generally and not to anyone specific here. Just, stay open to learning and difference of language if you can. We come from all places and levels, and no single written voice is going to be “perfect”; one size does not fit all. We do our best anyway. You know?

[Mortesbride]

As with everything in life and in particularly on the internet...

You can never bubble wrap what you say to suit everyone.

Someone, somewhere will always disagree or be offended...or hurt...or traumatised.

Granted that doesn't give you a licence to intentionally set out to annoy or hurt others...

But I don't think every single piece of information out there has to be scrutinised and shrink wrapped from every angle that COULD POSSIBLY hurt a new LBS or whatever.

At some stage people really have to understand the meaning behind a statement. The overall pattern in a trend.

People in general need to stop nit picking the particulars and pay attention to the over all picture.

As they always say ''Take what resonates and leave the rest''.

[Acorn]

I shared what I perceived as a newbie upon encountering the Pave article and summarized as:

One sees what one wants to see.  In my case, I saw in the article ‘how to get my H back’.   Rather than taking in the overall message, which is really about healing and growing, despite MLC and MLCer, I zoomed into certain segments of the article - I highlighted these in bold italic.  Yes, I know. I was the best cherry picker in the neighbourhood. 

RCR asked a question on this particular article, not any other, even less Weiner Davis’ 180.  So, I don’t think anyone wishes to be looking at every title and expression.  I’d say that would be generalizing beyond the scope of this thread. 

[Nerissa]

As with everything in life and in particularly on the internet...

You can never bubble wrap what you say to suit everyone.

Someone, somewhere will always disagree or be offended...or hurt...or traumatised.

Granted that doesn't give you a licence to intentionally set out to annoy or hurt others...

But I don't think every single piece of information out there has to be scrutinised and shrink wrapped from every angle that COULD POSSIBLY hurt a new LBS or whatever.

At some stage people really have to understand the meaning behind a statement. The overall pattern in a trend.

People in general need to stop nit picking the particulars and pay attention to the over all picture.

As they always say ''Take what resonates and leave the rest''.

I’d say the same.  This is an internet support forum.  It cannot take the place of qualified, professional advice.  It does provide empathy and a lot of common sense.

[UrsaMajor]

I’d say the same.  This is an internet support forum.  It cannot take the place of qualified, professional advice.  It does provide empathy and a lot of common sense.

Meme stolen and modified:

"Posting on the Internet: The easiest way to misrepresent yourself and to have others misinterpret you."

[Velika]

I agree Paving the Way is a beautiful concept and a gentle way to describe our best possible hopes and outcomes.

Unfortunately, I think the timelines and stages and also fantasies of MLC outcome are so repeatedly and pervasively used on the site that it is not uncommon for new arrivals to it to begin asking what stage they are in, how will they know it’s over etc.?

In a spiritual and emotional sense, by all means, yes — behave in a way that does not exacerbate your estranged spouse’s condition. However, this behavior may be counterintuitive as to how you would act with a non-disordered person.

My own uncle has whatever this is. He has deteriorated a lot since it stated. His estranged wife, my aunt, told me even after he had left messages threatening her life, she was hoping once they were divorced they could be friends again.

I had to explain to her that she needs to accept he won’t recover. This is not to be cruel or not pave the way but self protection on all levels. I think many of our spouses, had they not fallen ill, would agree even with strong measure like no contact and rapid divorce.

I would say, instead of pave the way, minimize negative interactions and trauma. As many of us have learned, either anecdotally or through research, certain physical disorders of the brain can result in someone seeking out and engaging in conflict just to feel something. If this is your spouse, please do not put it on yourself to pave the way. Don’t engage. This is for your own self protection.

Most people come here in a deeply traumatized state when ambiguous language can easily be misinterpreted. Imagine if an LBS were injured or her children were harmed because of this.

Yes, it’s the internet, but the primary audience is very susceptible and fragile. Something we should all be mindful of.

[Ready2Transform]

Whatever "this" is though, is not the same for everyone here. There is "dis-ease" present for some. There are probably seriously mentally ill people too who might degenerate without hope. My former spouse was diagnosed bipolar. That is not the reason I quit standing 5.5 years in. It's not my job to talk anyone else of seeing their choice to stand as a "fantasy" (because it is not; it is a choice). What is happening with any given MLCer and what choice the LBS makes to stand or not are two completely separate issues. There is no reason to belittle standing, just because we choose not to stand or change our decision at some point. We cannot paint every situation with the same brush, or feel any decision outside of triage is based on faulty information.

[Velika]

The comments were in no way meant to belittle standing, and I 100 percent agree with you that not everyone here is dealing with the same thing.

In real life, I know of two cases where the person came home; one was a man and one was a woman. Both were relatively self aware and actively seeking therapy/spiritual guidance, although they did move out and have affairs. Their spouses did a lot of things this site recommends, like stay busy, draw boundaries, and in one case even began dating or considering dating. However, neither person was doing things like wild spending, truly bizarre affair partner, radical personality change, striking change in habits etc. that are regularly reported on these forums.

What I see on this forum, unfortunately, is no attempt to distinguish who might have a crisis and who might have a serious illness. In fact, people who suggest the latter are routinely and categorically shut down or told to go elsewhere, despite the fact that many of the symptoms they report are in fact the norm among posters. (Many of us are aware of a poster who attempted to alert people about frontotemporal lobe disorder who was repeatedly shut down, even when she made sure to qualify her remarks.) The truth is, early bvFTD is often mistaken as a midlife crisis. This is uncontroversial; you will find it in serious articles about the disease.

Until there is a way to truly expand the thinking of the forum that YES, some people are arriving here with very sick spouses, etc., it is in my opinion irresponsible to use language that could put someone or their children in harm's way.

[UrsaMajor]

bvFTD is a rare,  progressive, degenerative, non-curable, non-reversible and fatal disease......

Most of the posters here have Mid-Lifers that live to ripe old ages (or have so far) with no further progression of symptoms... They go off the rails into Schmoopieland and stay there or they may even return. They don't end up dead from brain wasting.... . Yes, there are likely cases of serious medical illness but you (and bvFTD's) insistence that this is a commonly occurring ailment that causes what we know here as a Mid-Life Crisis is what confused people and is not substantiated by fact.

This thread, however, is NOT discussing medical issues so please return to the topic.

[Songanddance]

(Many of us are aware of a poster who attempted to alert people about frontotemporal lobe disorder who was repeatedly shut down, even when she made sure to qualify her remarks.) The truth is, early bvFTD is often mistaken as a midlife crisis.

Yes, there are likely cases of serious medical illness but you (and bvFTD's) insistence that this is a commonly occurring ailment that causes what we know here as a Mid-Life Crisis is what confused people and is not substantiated by fact.

Thank you UM - Correct.
Velika  BVFTD was not "shut down" but was asked by RCR to stop telling newbies that their MLCers clearly had bvFTD and to make the MLCers go to the doctors which for many newbies is an impossible task.  It was not because we didn't accept that condition exists but that the advice needed to be more appropriate in response to the newbie's story.  It was also suggested that there was a separate thread on bvFTD which emerged and soon dissipated because most members on here knew that it didn't apply to them. 

So as UM says - this thread is about paving the way and not re-hashing old stories or accusations. So please keep on topic.