[Stand Tall]

Although I could talk PTSD all day long, I have been putting my personal story her and have decided to take it to my thread.

Stand

[gman242]

I think MLC and MLT are all rooted in something from childhood. I don't think it's possible to point to one thing or another and say "that's it!" as there are just too many people and too many variables out there to be able to make a single diagnosis for each case. Even professional psychology has moved away from identifying one cause.. everything is now defined as a cluster or spectrum, unless we're talking about specific brain injuries.

I think generally what happens is we have childhoods where we don't get the support we need to be mature and healthy.  We get into relationships and families and just plod along doing the family thing and "making things work" until something happens and MLC hits. i think the MLC or MLT is just the surface level, visible "freak out" of all these hidden issues that one ignored for all those years. They can be poor coping techniques, the path not followed ect.

I had a MLT and I was all over the place. I originally wanted to fly helicopters in the army and way back when, you had to have 20/20 vision and I found out years later they dropped the requirement to correctable up to a limit I fell well within. I tried to re enlist, I looked into private lessons.. ect. In some senses, I tried to make up for the past.

In some other cases, I made some really poor choices. I had a limit I wouldn't go beyond and that was cheating or anything serious enough to end my marriage and that's why I say I had an MLT, I think that knowing you have a limit is what separates it from a MLC. But making some of those poor choices was a lot like being drunk.. it felt great and you think it's a hilarious idea to get on the roof and jump off.. until you break your arm and sober up. the person with the MLT won't do it again. The person in the MLC will set the house on fire, jump off, break their arm sober up, do it again the next day and this time set the neighbors house on fire too.

But anyway.. yes PTSD is involved. Yes PD is involved. There's also attachment theory involved too. I think many of the MLCers are avoidant attachment which explains a lot of the MLC type behaviors. I think my wife easily has PD, C-PTSD, PTSD and she's avoidant attatched.

[Couragedearheart]

I’m totally with Gman on this one. And mainly because the ptsd symptoms my H is having match his symptoms from previous ptsd he had after a car accident for a while.  The last time I got shark eyes I ask if he felt disconnected and he said he felt like he was watching himself...had him put a pack of cold peas out of the freezer on his neck and concentrate on how cold they felt....shark eyes disappeared and he remembered everything up till the shark eyes and everything after the cold peas.
It’s disassociating, and it can cause dissociative amnesia. The “trigger” he thought we were going to have an emotional talk. So he freaked. And dissociated. Which is a great coping mechanism for a little kid in a bad situation they can’t escape from.
And H is completely avoidant. He has said, he would rather run away, than talk through the tough stuff....and is there any other way to fix our relationship than talk through the tough stuff...I said no. He said “I’ll do some of it, but I hate it, and I don’t know why....it’s not like anyone talked about emotional stuff with me when I was growing up.”   🐘 that’s a mighy fine elephant we have been raising in the living room. 🤦‍♀️
If shark eyes=dissociation (which makes sense adrenaline=larger pupils) then in dissociative states you would be dealing with unincorporated parts of personality....imagine what those unincorporated parts would learn having the knowledge that the adult mlcer has and having a decent and safe relationship to compare it with.
And it can be triggered by either finally feeling safe enough to deal with issues....or being retraumatized by a trigger.
Funny enough, either way the info here would work...don’t engage with monster.

[Couragedearheart]

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58ed2e74e4b0145a227cb909/amp

Interesting article on PTSD abandonment

[Granite]

Have you read about Complex PTSD?
This precisely fits the bill for my situation...I’m beginning to think that what we think of as a MLC is just cptsd and that our reaction to it only makes things worse.
I think all the traits of our MLCers that look like PD’s are actually coping mechanisms that they learned from abuse or example by abusive caretakers who probably had a PD...or passed down the behavior generationally.
Anyone else see the similarities?

    Prior to BD my Wife was diagnosed with PTSD.  The therapy that followed ripped her apart and I went from being her rock to being her devil.  At the time I viewed the PTSD to be related to a recent near death medical episode, but last week I realized so much more.

    I was served divorce papers and after the shock I decided to reach out to my Wife and ask to meet and say hello. She agreed, we met and had a light conversation for almost 3-hours.  During this time I had been very calm, hands calm, voice calm.  Toward the end I became animated in conveying something exciting.  My voice rose, I moved my hands…and she shut-down.

    Moments later came the realization that my Wife has been dealing with PTSD her whole life.  A bit of searching led me to a website supporting people with Complex-PTSD and I was knocked to my knees the moment I started reading their stories.

    Their stories and finding Pete Walker’s website on Complex-PTSD explained everything I had witnessed, endured and helped calm in our 28 years together prior to her Crisis.

    In reading many of those folks stories it becomes clear that they truly are just hanging on until they enter therapy or that eventually they can hold on no longer and implode. One thread discusses their worsening mental state as they age and there is much referencing crisis and identity.

The part I found most relevant to our situation is their viewing things as either on or off, acceptable or not acceptable, there is no middle ground.  Several times during our time together she has wanted to bail for the most illogical of reasons. Yet, once we talked thru the problem she would say something to the effect of, “Oh, I didn’t realize I could do that and you’d still love me”.

So in summing up my thoughts on all this I can’t help wondering if many of our spouses have suffered C-PTSD from childhood traumas and that we in fact do help them hang on until they can’t.  Of course, that begs the question if we had been less “caring” and “understanding” might they have entered crisis earlier and sought counseling?  My feeling is they wouldn’t have, they would have continued on one way or the other until they could go forward no more.

So for my Wife C-PTSD was first, then the MLC second and now they are intermingled as the signs of both are still there.

Overall my Wife is calmer now and during the phone call asking for us to be set free she did let me know she was sorry that I triggered her PTSD.  It’s still my fault, but at least she acknowledges she has a part in all this.

Thanks
For reading     

[barbiedoll]

Great post Granite...I have also wondered very similar things. I just posted on my thread a diagnoses of DTD ( Developmental Trauma Disorder) and I belive 100 % that my H has had some form of PTSD his entire life. He was born 3 months early to a 15 year old mother...and studies have shown trauma in the womb.

Moments later came the realization that my Wife has been dealing with PTSD her whole life.  A bit of searching led me to a website supporting people with Complex-PTSD and I was knocked to my knees the moment I started reading their stories.

    Their stories and finding Pete Walker’s website on Complex-PTSD explained everything I had witnessed, endured and helped calm in our 28 years together prior to her Crisis.

.

Yes. I also have been utterly shocked by similarities that I have read . Especially reading about ACOA trauma... every single description was accurate of my husband . His picture should have been on the cover. And for our 30 year marriage, I really was very uninformed , uneducated and in the dark. So was he for that matter.

[Stand Tall]

So, following along with this and would have to say my H is the same. He was diagnosed with depression and PTSD about 8 years ago. When the psychologist wanted to hypnotize him and take him back to his childhood H refused and quit going.
 
  What now, what can we do for our mlcer? I read a lot about limerance and the ow and how we need to let that play out. So, do we just wait for that time before we bring all of this to our spouses? As we wait is there anything above what we already know to do for ourselves (GAL)that we could be learning in dealing with this correctly.

Stand Tall

[Disillusioned]

Great post Granite...I have also wondered very similar things. I just posted on my thread a diagnoses of DTD ( Developmental Trauma Disorder) and I belive 100 % that my H has had some form of PTSD his entire life. He was born 3 months early to a 15 year old mother...and studies have shown trauma in the womb.

Moments later came the realization that my Wife has been dealing with PTSD her whole life.  A bit of searching led me to a website supporting people with Complex-PTSD and I was knocked to my knees the moment I started reading their stories.

    Their stories and finding Pete Walker’s website on Complex-PTSD explained everything I had witnessed, endured and helped calm in our 28 years together prior to her Crisis.

.

Yes. I also have been utterly shocked by similarities that I have read . Especially reading about ACOA trauma... every single description was accurate of my husband . His picture should have been on the cover. And for our 30 year marriage, I really was very uninformed , uneducated and in the dark. So was he for that matter.

ACOA trauma was precisely described by my W in MC.  I'm not sure she knew what she was describing.  Now that I've read about it, I can see that many of the poor coping mechanisms ACOA's learn were behaviors she applied to our relationship.  Unfortunately, I am blamed for all of it.  But, it really is uncanny. And sad.  Once LBS's become educated on these FOO factors, it's less difficult to feel empathy for the MLCer's.  At least, that's how it works for me.  I'll admit, it comes in cycles...   

[Granite]

Thanks barbiedoll,

Just read up on ACOA and they talked about the lack of control a child feels in the care of alcoholic parent.  I now can see how my trying to help my Wife stay calm and eat well per her doctors orders was seen as control.  Well I can see that too! Although she did ask for me to help her.

Makes me sick to think she viewed our home the same way she saw her childhood home, but there it is!


Hi Stand Tall-

     I am not sure what we can do for our Spouses.  The thing I wish I had was the strength to display unconditional love at BD.  How a person could do that I do not know, but when she said, “Oh, he makes me so happy, let me tell you about it” I walked away leaving her sitting on the couch alone.  Now I don’t feel I was wrong, because I didn’t know what I know now, but I wished I had just smiled, held her hand and let her talk.  Maybe not humanly possible, but I firmly believe it would have been better for her and maybe us in the long run.

It made no sense too myself or others when invited me to talk and visit soon after BD only to call other people and tell them how scared she was of me.  A few months late she was vacating her rental and offered it to me. I accepted and a few hours later she called a mutual friend in a panic terrified I was retuning to the area.  She went so far as to tell another mutual friend that if they told me where she lived they would be signing her death warrant.

Made no sense at the time.  Now that I have read about C-PTSD I get it.  Their fear can explode at the slightest twitch.

Interesting your Husband refused to look backward, I remember there was a point where my Wife said, “No more exposing her past”.  A friend who heads up a mental health organization told me that the profession, at least here, is curtailing intrusive psychotherapy in favor of providing their patients with the tools needed  to navigate a better life.


Dissillusioned-

The blame is so very painful and yes learning about their beginnings does help, at least it helps me to learn where all this blackness comes from.  I do sincerely feel for them and I know I am so low today not about the Divorce, but about the suffering she endured as a child.

[Stand Tall]

In the beginning of my relationship/marriage to my husband I made him a promise that I would never abandon him like everyone else had. This was said because of the stories he told me.

  Since he ran away from home I was told by his half sister that my H was an alcoholic by the age of 9.

  While I was with him we did drink a lot. I have all but quit now. He and ow drink a lot. I've been told they always have a big drink and shots on the bar.

  Seeing this today will help me look at different areas other then the typical mlc, gal info. I do still think I won't be able to do much till he comes out of limerance.

  What I hate the most is his fear of me. At BD I did show unconditional live to him. He actually said to me that I was acting like I had a lightbulb moment. I knew something wasn't right with him.

  Maybe the fact that I don't drink much anymore is part of having the way for him to come home. We are at 22 months since BD