[Anjae]

This two quotes from SS's, about which I made questions on reply #76 of this thread, but got none tell me that there is something that can be done and the MLCer is not so incapable.

Otherwise, why wish MLC was medically recognised? Still, if someone is out of their mind, MLC being recognised or not, that person should go see a professional.

I wish it was recognised medically because I know I wasn’t in my right mind my normal frame of mind when I exploded my life.

I personally don’t feel I owe my ex h an apology for the fact I wasn’t capable of controlling my own mind though I feel deeply sorry for what happened there is a difference.

There is another thing I don't like in the first quote, SS's, like nearly all MLCers, exploded someone else's life. Yet, she only speaks of herself. She, like any MLCer, had the option of getting professional help. I looked for professional help and it made a difference.

And then some people appear to not need an apology for being treated poorly.

I don't need an apology because I already got several and Mr J keep treating me poorly and being nasty. Also, I'm sorry I blew your life apart and was physically violent is not going to do it. It is just words and there is nothing I can do with words.

[lawprofessor]

I personally don’t feel I owe my ex h an apology for the fact I wasn’t capable of controlling my own mind though I feel deeply sorry for what happened there is a difference. Ultimately I didn’t have control of entering MLC, it just happens to some people at certain times in their lives.
I do hope this helps in some way to understand that the MLCer is no more responsible for this than a random lightning bolt hitting your house.
I still stand by my thoughts that MLCers should not ever be allowed to sign legal papers etc.

As I re read the post which I believe caused all the confusion and questioning,  SS feels she doesn't owe her xh an apology for being, in her experience, incapable of controlling her own mind, but that she is sorry it happened. It looks like a disconnect between the reader and writer happened because while there is mention of being sorry it happened,  there is no mention of there ever being an apology for the "sorry it happened" portion of the MLC.  This leaves the reader wondering why someone would not apologize (as in ever) for the actions that hurt another., intentional or not, 

It's interesting, because I don't recall anyone saying a person should apologize for having an mlc. Just for the hurt the mlc caused (at least at some point).  And then some people appear to not need an apology for being treated poorly. As I struggle to understand why apologies seem to be so difficult, the differing perspectives show why interpersonal relationships are fraught with miscommunication.

I'm with you in the same boat of confusion Off Road.  That's why I asked for clarification as to the meaning and said I was confused. 

I don't know where all this talk came from about 2 x4's and such when I don't see where that happened. 

I don't think the topic has been split into the 2 parts before, by a former MLCER.  (Happening and hurt caused).  At least not that I've read.  So I was confused and asked for clarification. 

Lp

[Ready2Transform]

What I meant is that 2 x 4 and the healing, growth, etc. questions are as valid to a LBS as to a MLCer.

I agree. Most times, and I think Treasur and LP did their due diligence here, they are tempered with compassion. They posed questions to ponder. Not aggressive. There is an undercurrent of fear that SS is going to be pushed off the forum I think, and that too is SS's choice. It's important to differentiate the support and comfort we get from someone's words, and a dependency on them. /rant

I'm glad Anjae brought up the stages of exiting the tunnel. I thought I was out way before I was. I'm going to ask her, SS, denjef if she's reading, and any other former MLCers who may have some input: do you agree that the actual emotional issues that got you to MLC aren't dealt with until AFTER the tunnel, not as a means to get out of it?

This has been my experience. All of the real work of childhood wounding has been with my newer brain. I could not have done it while still in crisis, even toward the end. I *did* begin the "chemical" part of healing (my nutritional and physical changes that worked on healing my brain chemistry). That had to be the foundation. I am with Anjae/FTT/kikki/Velika who see this all medically before emotionally. I validate what SS said about not having a choice in this happening, but LP's allegory with the drunk driver is spot on, in my view. I'm absolutely responsible to clean up my mess. That involves the people I hurt (including, first on the list - myself). Maturing emotionally and not coming from the perspective of a wounded child means no longer seeking a loophole of accountability. That has been my experience. And I did apologize to my xH years ago and have maintained integrity to the best of my ability in our split. That's all I can do.

[Anjae]

I don't recall any childhood work post tunnel, but in the tunnel certainly there was nothing being done other than going out and about and having fun and being tired when the fun would calm down.

My emotional issues had to do with the fact that I was emotional rather than rational at BD. How could I had been emotional? Why didn't I do what needed to be done? They were only dealt with after the tunnel and Liminality. Way after. I figure out why I was not acting rational at the time.

I was in too much stress, anxiety and turmoil, that cause changes to brain and body and the doctor I went to at BD gave me valerian pills that did nothing to my level of anxiety and stress. Only after I come back and my friend who is a psychiatrist gave me Alprazolan did things start to calm down.

It took a good while because there had already been too much stress, anxiety and turmoil that I made worst with my going up and down city hills for hours when I still lived in the capital and by all the going out and about.

With my personal experience, observing my counsin's crisis under the microscope and with what I have learned of neurobiology and neuroscience my view is that the issue is medical and it is the fact that the medical is not attended that creates the emotional turmoil.

Whatever our emotions, MLC or no MLC, they connected to our mind/brain and body, they do not exist in a vacuum. Everything, from being in love to depression to the way MLCer skew things can be explained with science and/or medicine. Of course it is pretty tedious to explain being in love with hormones and other chemicals and none of us does that in real life.

[megogirl]

Involuntary manslaughter does not mean the murder was not at fault.

No I know - what I actually said was that it was IMPLIED they were not at fault.  Hence the word "involuntary".

[Shockandawe]

Hello everyone, Shock here,

I have been reading through this thread and I think it’s about time everyone understands that my sister has made up her mind about the fact she will explain things to her ex h when she feels the time is right, NOT for her but for him.
As for Anjae somehow getting the idea my sister was in MLC for only a year and a half I have no idea where that came from. It was 4 years also she said she wished mlc was medically recognised NOT for the mlcer but to protect the lbser from a rampant mlcer who signs legal paper work which could financially damage the lbser. She was prescribed meds but flushed them down the toilet as she didn’t think there was anything wrong with her. So no, to have it medically recognised would be of no use to the mlcer it would be of massive use to the lbser.
I spoke to her earlier today and it seems to me that the same old ground keeps getting hauled out again and again. The decision to talk to and apologise is hers and hers alone.
Our own Father went through mlc but I didn’t though my sister did. The fact she is older and must have been affected more profoundly than I which in turn to my understanding anyway, meant this was predestined to happen.
All I know is she is a massive part of my life and my support. Without her I wouldn’t have the understanding she has given me and for that I am eternally grateful. The fact she does this for others is something she gives back and is always completely honest and open with her responses.
As her sister I am asking for everyone to respect her wishes and accept the fact she will not have discuss with her and x h anything that is in anyway an explanation but has repeatedly said she intends to do so when the time is right.
She will continue to answer questions to the best of her ability but will not answer any more about the whole apology topic.
I know my sister was a different person during her mlc. I know she is back and is the person I have known my whole life.
She is a good and kind person who went through something which not only devastated her ex h but destroyed her life too. I know that no one would do that by choice and it would be pretty outrageous of me to even think someone would knowingly be so cruel as to choose to do so.

God bless you all

Shock

[Sam I Am]

Understood.  I can and will respect that boundary!

I for one am very appreciative of all your sister has offered and all she has endured since speaking up on this forum!

[Shockandawe]

Hello Sam

She’s made of pretty tough stuff my sister lol.
She very often says if she can help only one person gain some understanding of the nightmare which is mlc then she has done something right.
I know she helps me daily and I will never be able to thank her enough.

God bless you all

Shock

[forthetrees]

For sure she has already accomplished that.

[Thunder]

Thank you Shock.

You have pretty special sister there.

Love to you both.