[Thunder]

Jackolar,

I believe you are absolutely right.  Most relationships are changed after this.

[Not Applicable]

As I understood it, what 1T is saying is that if you are questioning your marriage pre-BD, that's your own issue to deal with, not the MLCer's. If you don't know if it was real when it seemed real before, well, that's all a matter of your own perception.

That's different IMO from getting an explanation or remorse from the MLCer for what happened during MLC though.

[megogirl]

I suppose once the innocence of love has been broken it’s never quite the same for either party.

How could it?  It's something that I struggle with, every day.  Because I don't believe that innocence can ever be recaptured.

'Tis why I am so impressed by people like RCR, who was somehow able to pull off her re-build/reconciliation.

[Sam I Am]

I agree that it won't be the same.  That innocence is gone.  The blind trust is gone.  It doesn't matter if it is with the MLCer or someone else....POOF....all gone!

I believe to that I don't want to go back to the old marriage.  As good as it was, it can always be better.  Somethings was broken that didn't let my H come and talk to me.  I can see some things now that I didn't see before.  Things that could have been overcome easily if it was discussed.

I believe that we need to grow and mature and learn to forgive and get past some things.  Our spouses must also "grow up" and then and only then can we both sit down and discuss what the future could potentially be.

They are also not going to have the same easiness that was there before.  They have to overcome fears and trepidations and other emotions that led to their betrayal so that it never happens again.

Can it be better?....I do believe it is possible but I am a hopeless optimist.  It will take both people working towards a common goal and putting egos aside.  In order to put those egos aside, we need to grow into ourselves and have confidence. 

Confidence is a must (IMO) and there is fine line between being confident and being arrogant that can't be crossed.  We must believe in ourselves but not to the point where we think the MLCer is indebted to us because of their mistakes.  They owe us nothing!  We owe them nothing!  We both must be confident we are worthy people and let the ego's at the door along with the past once it is settled!

[xyzcf]

Can it be better?....I do believe it is possible but I am a hopeless optimist.

The people I know who have reconciled have said it is better. Perhaps because the rose colored glasses are off but they have all expressed to me that even those whose marriages were regarded as "good" before, they are much better now.

The MLCer has to heal something inside of them, something dark and deep that has been there before we knew them. With this healing, comes a more healthy and complete person so it makes sense that it could go very well IF the 2 ever find their way back to one another.

But then I too am a hopeless optimist.

[Slow Fade]

 

We must believe in ourselves but not to the point where we think the MLCer is indebted to us because of their mistakes.  They owe us nothing!  We owe them nothing!  We both must be confident we are worthy people and let the ego's at the door along with the past once it is settled!

Totally agree with this.

Perhaps because the rose colored glasses are off

  This too. When that happens you can get down and do the real work of reconciliation and marriage........ brutal honesty, reality, not being afraid to talk about anything. Its empowering.

[Mortesbride]

We must believe in ourselves but not to the point where we think the MLCer is indebted to us because of their mistakes.  They owe us nothing!  We owe them nothing!  We both must be confident we are worthy people and let the ego's at the door along with the past once it is settled!

Our spouse and MLCer is indebted to us. They have caused a grievous wound that can not be easily healed. We must sort through our lives and they will forever be changed because of something they did. It is our choice to wallow in it our heal and get stronger. But they do owe us. They owe a sort of primal debt that can never truly be paid. And that is the point of the issue isn't?

How do you heal such a wound, when the person you loved most is the one who held the knife? Some people will never heal from it. Some people will heal and move on. Some people will pretend to move on, but still cry in the shower when they are alone.

The MLCer do owe something. But it is a debt that can never be paid. No amount of words, or grovelling, or acts of contrition can make the scar go away.

It is ours for life.

We can accept it and wear it proudly, or we can hide it with shame and grief. Either way it is there and always will be.

[Thunder]

Interesting question , Mort.

"Our spouse and MLCer is indebted to us. They have caused a grievous wound that can not be easily healed.  We must sort through our lives and they will forever be changed because of something they did. It is our choice to wallow in it our heal and get stronger. But they do owe us. They owe a sort of primal debt that can never truly be paid. And that is the point of the issue isn't? "

SS may I ask what you think of this?  Do you agree with this, or no?  Part of me agrees and part of me doesn't.
I'd love to get your input, as a former MLCer. 

[Shockandawe]

Interesting question I actually don’t agree because I truly believe the MLCer as I was is suffering from some kind of mental breakdown. I wish it was recognised medically because I know I wasn’t in my right mind my normal frame of mind when I exploded my life.
Who in their right mind chooses to cause devastation, deep, deep hurt without feeling the consequences of it at the time. This should tell you something about the condition of the MLCers mind.
The primary reason for MLC as I see it is a desperate escape from long buried issues never dealt with and depression, feeling weak and useless, questioning why am I here, what am I doing etc as this is too much to deal with and I felt like I was hanging onto my sanity by a thread then along comes the rescuer, the fantasy and the fog. The promise of a better life, a way to forget and this unfortunately includes the previous way of living, the LBS, the family, the marriage. The fog itself creates this new fantasy reality and is an oxymoron because although it causes intense pain for the LBS it saved me from a mental asylum.
It’s only as I came out of the fog I had and still have a deep regret and see the consequences of my actions. During the fog I had no choice but to go into it and follow the path. During this time I know the real me was healing and stayed hidden below until I could face the issues which had led me into MLC in the first place. The horrible other persona is the one everyone sees and this is the protector of the real person. The one unable to cope is like a wounded animal, this is why I believe MLCers become the total opposite of the people you know because they have to to survive. I know it’s not all fun and games for the MLCer although to the LBSer they see the couldn’t care less, carefree attitude as time progresses however it gets far more difficult and a battle ensues which MLCers can’t win because eventually I had to face it. The time factor is different for each person as some are better at constantly blocking out thoughts of their former life. Don’t ever think we don’t think about our former lives because we do and depending on how far you through the fog you are you either block it or start becoming ready to deal with reality.
I personally don’t feel I owe my ex h an apology for the fact I wasn’t capable of controlling my own mind though I feel deeply sorry for what happened there is a difference. Ultimately I didn’t have control of entering MLC, it just happens to some people at certain times in their lives.
I do hope this helps in some way to understand that the MLCer is no more responsible for this than a random lightning bolt hitting your house.
I still stand by my thoughts that MLCers should not ever be allowed to sign legal papers etc.

[Cherry Blossom]

Hi Shocks Sis

I've been digesting all of your threads and wanted to say thank you so much for sharing your journey - it's helping me understand this more and helping me detach from my MLC-er

I'm on my second MLC-er and I don't know if it's relevant but I wanted to ask you if you had experienced these two events.  My W had a sort of episode possibly up to 12 months prior to BD where she was panicking about me dying and her parents dying.  She was almost inconsolable with her crying and I can still clearly see the panic in her face - she was so scared.  About 6 months ago my wife had drunk quite a lot of wine but not too much for her and she was violently sick.  My ex H also had the same experience.  He was sobbing uncontrollably about the loss of his grandmother - wailed like a wounded animal - and also had the violent sickness approx 6 months later.  Looking back it almost seems like this could be the starting to be sucked into the tunnel.  Would be good to have your take on this and whether you also experienced this.

Thanks