[OffRoad]

Trust isn't given. Trust is earned.

That ^^^^^^^

[OldPilot]

Jack, I'm not SS but I'll try to answer your question.

Not trusting other people is completely justifiable. There are a lot of untrustworthy people in the world and trusting an untrustworthy person is just going to get you hurt. Great answer, huh?

The secret is to use baby steps. Try trusting somebody with something small and relatively insignificant. If that works out, move it up a level. Keep doing that and eventually you'll learn whether or not that person deserves your trust.

Trust isn't given. Trust is earned.

Along these lines maybe you are attracted to the wrong people.
Ones that are untrustworthy.

[Standing Strong]

Choosing to trust is a decision, I don't think it happens on it's own.

You have to decide to do it, and then do it. Takes effort and plenty of it, and we have to be vulnerable otherwise where is the risk?

I don't think it's healthy to clam up and protect ourselves. That's just a slow death.

I think it's ok to realize that people can hurt you, and it's ok to be hurt. That's life. At some point we find people who don't hurt us, and hopefully that's our spouse but if not..... that's ok. I think people feel guilty when they are hurt.... like they could prevent it or something. That's not true. People hurt people, happens everyday. There's nothing new under the sun. It's happened before, it's happening now, it will happen again. Nothing can change that. What we can do is keep moving forward. Take your hits, claim them as your own and keep going. No shame in saying and knowing you've been knocked around. You're alive. You're good. Nothing has stopped you. Keep moving forward, put out that hand and see who reaches out and grabs it.

-SS

[OffRoad]

The belief that trust is earned, not given is not necessarily clamming up and protecting oneself. It kind of sounded like that is what you meant, SS. Did I misinterpret? Think about it, do you trust that no one is going to make a mistake and come into your lane when you are driving, or are you aware of what is going on around you and guage who is driving erratically and who is not? (I'm hoping the latter)  Do you trust every person you meet immediately with your innermost thoughts and desires? (I'm hoping the answer is no).

All day long we make judgments.  Will my coworker stab me in the back yet again or should I trust that he won't this time?  Should I step out in front of that truck traveling at 50 mph and trust he's going to stop? Do I trust this complete stranger with the access code for my door? The notion that trust is earned is not some deep thing. It's what we DO. At least most of us vet people before we blindly trust. IMO, that's a survival instinct. Trusting the untrustworthy could get you killed.

I'll trust when i see the behavior that shows me trustworthiness. I have no desire to set myself up so that I can be knocked down so I can get back up. I'm good with reaching out to a select few that have shown trustworthiness and are less likely to knock me down. But to each their own. We all get to choose how we want to live. I don't get joy out of trying 200 flavors every month, 175 of which I don't like. Some people do. I get joy out of enjoying the 25 flavors I know I like, and maybe trying a new one every once in a while. It doesn't make either way right or wrong, it just is.

[Treasur]

And a timely example of a post from Chump Lady on this very issue...https://www.chumplady.com/2019/11/how-do-i-know-friends-wont-betray-me/

[Whyus]

Jack, I'm not SS but I'll try to answer your question.

Not trusting other people is completely justifiable. There are a lot of untrustworthy people in the world and trusting an untrustworthy person is just going to get you hurt. Great answer, huh?

The secret is to use baby steps. Try trusting somebody with something small and relatively insignificant. If that works out, move it up a level. Keep doing that and eventually you'll learn whether or not that person deserves your trust.

Trust isn't given. Trust is earned.

Along these lines maybe you are attracted to the wrong people.
Ones that are untrustworthy.

maybe he is but how can you tell if somebody is trustworthy or not? You cannot see it and you certainly canot smell or taste it. Untrustworthy people are also good liars and actors. That is one thing that we have learnt the hard way.

Fact is, EVERYBODY lies and you cannot trust anybody 100%! Sounds hard maybe but its true.

[Standing Strong]

Hi OffRoad 

I totally get the survival instinct, the desire to vet, self-protection. That all makes sense. What I was getting at is that trust is vulnerability, and that vulnerability is is a choice..... hence to trust (a leap of faith with someone at some level) is a choice.
I'm a very open person, very trusting, very honest, very kind. I have a lot of friends who have been burned and burned bad (co-workers mostly). Some are very angry, hurt, and closed off (emotionally). Some of these people have been that way a very long time (decades).
When I meet someone like this (normally thru work), I make it a point to get to know them, befriend them, kinda force my way in. They are a challenge, and I like having really good connections with people.
I've been at my current job for 18 years (love it) and it's a stressful, emotionally draining, high tempo, high stakes place to work. There are so many relationship and personality issue people there (LOL!!!).
Anyway.... like I said, I find the burned, the socially awkward, the mean, the ones others will not play with....... gaining their trust and friendship takes months if I'm lucky, I can't say how many took years and years to reach (a lot). What I found with all the multi-year people is: They're hurt, they're scared, they can't trust. It's this way without exception..... every single time. All of them have some kind of relationship "event" in their past. It takes so long of dropping by to say hi, of asking if I can do something for them, asking their opinion on things and making them laugh.... to finally help them know I'm ok, and safe. Then they become the strongest of friends, great connections, positive feelings. The thing is, most people won't do what I do.... they just leave these people alone, and the people left alone are happy to stew, until someone reaches out and they find how great it is to find that people aren't all out to get them. We are social creatures, and aren't meant to be alone. They forget what it's like to have connections and they grow cold & isolated.

To reach out and try is trust, and it's blind. It'd be so much easier to say "this person is too much work, too much effort, I'm going to leave them alone like everyone else".  I can only speak about what I've seen and lived, but I know it's true. It's so wonderful to see someone who had been closed off for so long, peek their head out.... and before you know it, they have several co-workers who are friends. Their lives and happiness drastically change..... it's beautiful. That is my joy: To see people happy and healthy. It does require trust and taking a chance on people again.
So when I hear about people shutting down, protecting, clamming up.... I equate it with the people I've run in to during life. The ones I have chosen to work at and show "it's ok". If they had had a little trust on their own, right front the start, they'd have been better...... faster..... years faster. The people who protect themselves are almost always wonderful and beautiful.... and make the best of friends (I think for life actually), and so they are my favorites. That's what I meant 

-SS

[Standing Strong]

Jack, I'm not SS but I'll try to answer your question.

Not trusting other people is completely justifiable. There are a lot of untrustworthy people in the world and trusting an untrustworthy person is just going to get you hurt. Great answer, huh?

The secret is to use baby steps. Try trusting somebody with something small and relatively insignificant. If that works out, move it up a level. Keep doing that and eventually you'll learn whether or not that person deserves your trust.

Trust isn't given. Trust is earned.

Along these lines maybe you are attracted to the wrong people.
Ones that are untrustworthy.

maybe he is but how can you tell if somebody is trustworthy or not? You cannot see it and you certainly canot smell or taste it. Untrustworthy people are also good liars and actors. That is one thing that we have learnt the hard way.

Fact is, EVERYBODY lies and you cannot trust anybody 100%! Sounds hard maybe but its true.

Oh there's soooo much in this (love it!!!!).
So is the problem that others aren't trustworthy? Or that you have a problem trusting? Don't take that as a dig or insult.... it's not.
Everyone here has been hurt and hurt bad by the person they should have been able to trust the most. So what is the response? "People are not trustworthy. I can/will be hurt again if I trust. Time to vet. Time to make them earn my trust". This is a natural, human response. Everybody does it, it's a reaction, not a choice (it's not a real choice!!!!).

Think back to when you met your future spouse...... did they have to earn your trust? Or did you pursue and give it freely? If you did..... why would now be any different? The rules haven't changed, only we have.
Think about all those thoughts.....
People are liars = I cannot trust
People are actors = I cannot trust
People stab in the back = I cannot trust
Cannot trust anyone 100% = I cannot trust
Untrustworthy people can kill you = I cannot trust

All of it... all the rationalizations are the protection reaction. It's the hand getting burned on the stove and pulling it back. It's not a choice.
Trust is risk, otherwise it wouldn't be hard to give. What is the risk? To be hurt..... again. What is the hurt? To show yourself again and be rejected. How deep and personal is that? It's huge.
It's the opening of the possibility that you aren't good, that you don't have value, that you are flawed, and that someone or people in general won't like you.

But here's the thing: Everyone else has those same thoughts, same fears, same insecurities.
Here's the other thing: You are wonderful, beautiful, special, one of a kind and great. Why hide it? Fear?
All the connections you have, even the one with your spouse before they flipped out had the ingredient of trust. It's essential. Without it, there isn't a connection. Did the ingredient go bad? No!!! The recipe did: the final product. Cook again!!!! You are delicious!!!!   

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

I agree with Standing Strong... My view on this is very similar.  Vulnerability is the power behind all great things - love, creativity, joy of life etc. By denying vulnerability, I would just punish myself. Thus I've knowingly worked myself a belief that if I some day reconcile, I will allow myself to trust as much/blindly as before. And if I go with new relationship, same thing there. Anything else would just sabotage my future life, make it lesser because of fear... This is not much different from feeling resentment.  I would be drinking poison, hoping other person to die. But of course other person cannot feel my vulnerability, or my trust . Same as with every other feeling.

Just my 2cents worth,

Alvin

[gman242]

Jack, I'm not SS but I'll try to answer your question.

Not trusting other people is completely justifiable. There are a lot of untrustworthy people in the world and trusting an untrustworthy person is just going to get you hurt. Great answer, huh?

The secret is to use baby steps. Try trusting somebody with something small and relatively insignificant. If that works out, move it up a level. Keep doing that and eventually you'll learn whether or not that person deserves your trust.

Trust isn't given. Trust is earned.

Along these lines maybe you are attracted to the wrong people.
Ones that are untrustworthy.

maybe he is but how can you tell if somebody is trustworthy or not? You cannot see it and you certainly canot smell or taste it. Untrustworthy people are also good liars and actors. That is one thing that we have learnt the hard way.

Fact is, EVERYBODY lies and you cannot trust anybody 100%! Sounds hard maybe but its true.

This is a really sensitive topic for me and it's something I've been thinking a lot about. Having dated online, it's really given me food for thought about the signals I send out into the world.

I tend to keep meeting the same types over and over. Maybe it's because in being online, it only attracts the same types of people, so there's that. But I also wonder how much of that is due to me and the way I present myself.

I agree 100%, people can be great actors and liars, however if you keep meeting the same type of person, how much of that is due to the people out there or the universe that sends them to you? why aren't you meeting other types and so on?

I think part of it is the signals you send out. I think I ooze sincerity and that's something most people don't find attractive. I've just come to the conclusion that most people prefer not to be emotionally inmate with someone. I think people are more attracted to a partner that is always busy with hobbies, taking kids to sports games, being social and so on. I also think that's why people are so unhappy and marriages don't last. At some point, staying busy gets old and you find yourself unhappy with your life and your partner.

I think a lot of the people on here are intelligent, kind and empathetic and sympathetic. That's why we're here and not on the chump lady site, to tie that in. I think that's mostly attractive to someone who doesn't have the emotional intelligence and sense of self that we do. I think that largely explains why I only seem to meet people that either clingers or people who push me away. I have yet to meet an even tempered, stable person.

I'm glad I dated for a bit as it taught me to recognize red flags earlier and to say no to people and to stop being with unhealthy people for longer than was necessary. However, it hasn't changed the fact that i can't seem to meet anyone else.

At this point, I'm at a loss. I can't change who I am or how I am. And honestly, it feels bad.. being told what a great guy you are (and knowing it), but only being able to attract unstable nutcases and watching all the other cute moms chase after guys who contribute nothing to the relationship other than throwing a paycheck on the counter.

I think people are just happier with chaos. I think people are attracted to other people because of the lifestyles they offer and how "busy" or active they seem and not for the qualities they hold as people and will contribute to the relationship. I think that's what's behind the old "girls like jerks" and "nice guys finish last" sayings.

I'm happy.. I don't need to be running off with dudes to the bar, the gym or working on someone else's car all the time to be happy. I'm a where ever you go, there you are person. I have things I do, hobbies and so on, but I don't have that energy or passion that people find attractive. I think I look boring honestly. I'm anything but.. I've just learned to pace myself and I value living in the moment.

On the flip side, I'm sure that's what attracted xw to me when we met. I was always doing something crazy and creative. Playing concerts, doing weird Halloween events and stuff..

I dunno.. I don't have all the answers, but I think people like us are genuine and that's only attractive to people that aren't. We can keep saying no to them, but it gets old and it hurts when we wonder all the time when the universe will send us someone who doesn't suck..