[Jackolar12]

My husband helped me a lot with breathing deeply and “be where your feet are”...

No walking or driving needed.   

Hi Nah, i haven't looked into anything yet but I did think of hypnotism. I live alone so I have no one to help in that respect I've spent 3 years in plater casts both legs for two years and only one for the last year. My bones have fused but my ankle has collapsed permanently and can't take weight for very long, but I do what I can. When I get back to driving I will get some. But I will read up on what you suggested.
Kind regards
Jack

[Standing Strong]

I would be curious if the fear of Menopause can help push a woman into MLC.

I know W is deathly afraid of Menopause. She has a complete  histo and was gutted several years ago...... hormone replacement since then (and she's never missed a pill, not even in MLC.... it's that important to her).

Men don't and can't understand what it's like to face going into this, and we can't understand what it's like to go thru it. Women have so many moving parts, so complicated and intricate. So many powerful chemicals compared to us.

-SS

Standing, confusing as to why you think your wife has a major fear of menopause, since if she underwent a complete hysterectomy, she would have been thrown into immediate surgically induced menopause.

NYM's post hit the nail on the head - HRT allows them to not enter menopause. The docs told W that she would get a prescription until they thought it was time for her to go thru with it (between 45 and 50). There was one time when there was a problem with her prescription and it looked like it would not be filled and she was about to be on the road for a week. The doc on the phone said "well, go thru menopause... you will sooner or later anyway". W blew a gasket and went ballistic (rightfully). In the end, she got her prescription and then started hording pills (not sure how) so that if there was ever an emergency she would have a supply. At one point she was talking about having a year's supply in "reserve" as her goal.
So yes.... deathly afraid of menopause. This was in the pre-BD shadow phase but I don't think it was what lit the fuse, it was already burning. If her fuse hadn't been burning already, her reaction was such that I think it could have lit it.

-SS

[Jackolar12]

Jackolar: I realize this may not be an option but I’ll put it out there anyway. There are more and more therapists who will work with clients over skype/FaceTime/video. Some PTSD therapies work best in person, but there are others that will work remotely. And considering how much they help it very well may be worth NOT waiting for when you are physically healed to start healing spiritually and psychically.

Only thing I will say about the discussion happening here: I don’t think we can equate the experience women have in their roles in society (and I am only limiting this to the US) as compared to men. I know we have varied backgrounds, religious beliefs, relationship beliefs. But as a general statement women are viewed more negatively if they are assertive in personal and professionals lives then men if the two genders behave EXACTLY the same and make the same choices. So there is a bias towards women having to be “nicer,” “less angry,” etc etc. So when we talk about roles in a long term marriage this factor may play a role. As we get older some of us become more comfortable with ourselves, and I can see that a spouse who has stayed in an uncomfortable relationship and has felt constrained may simply decides to change their lives.

This is in NO WAY the same as what many of us have experienced in MLC. That is simply called end of a non functioning relationship.

That's a great idea online therapy I will look into the costs involved. I have considered she just got fed up but the OM she went for was her ex boyfriend who dumped her over 30 years before and within a few months he dumped her again for a younger Asian lady. She told me she loved me 3 weeks before bomb drop and I witnessed very unusual behaviours in her. We appeared very happy so the sudden change floored me.

She almost  immediately poached OM 2 out of a 33 year marriage that's a super quick rebound in any bodies books.With all the single blokes about she split another family unit. People working with her told me I'm better off as she's having some form of identity crisis and this advice came from women not men, they told me to keep smiling.i don't smile so much these days unfortunately.

She was always dead set against this behaviour. Her parents who were upper middle class were mortified it gave her mother a sweet lady a stroke from all the anxiety caused and she never recovered her father died within 18 months and I liked my inlaws they lived 5 doors down. She must have pre-planned this how long for I really don't know. She blamed me by bullet pointed notes and she made no mention of an affair. I found out by luck a member of my family saw her out with him. And I started to dig and find more.
Kind regards
Jack

[Nas]

I would be curious if the fear of Menopause can help push a woman into MLC.

I know W is deathly afraid of Menopause. She has a complete  histo and was gutted several years ago...... hormone replacement since then (and she's never missed a pill, not even in MLC.... it's that important to her).

Men don't and can't understand what it's like to face going into this, and we can't understand what it's like to go thru it. Women have so many moving parts, so complicated and intricate. So many powerful chemicals compared to us.

-SS

Standing, confusing as to why you think your wife has a major fear of menopause, since if she underwent a complete hysterectomy, she would have been thrown into immediate surgically induced menopause.

NYM's post hit the nail on the head - HRT allows them to not enter menopause. The docs told W that she would get a prescription until they thought it was time for her to go thru with it (between 45 and 50). There was one time when there was a problem with her prescription and it looked like it would not be filled and she was about to be on the road for a week. The doc on the phone said "well, go thru menopause... you will sooner or later anyway". W blew a gasket and went ballistic (rightfully). In the end, she got her prescription and then started hording pills (not sure how) so that if there was ever an emergency she would have a supply. At one point she was talking about having a year's supply in "reserve" as her goal.
So yes.... deathly afraid of menopause. This was in the pre-BD shadow phase but I don't think it was what lit the fuse, it was already burning. If her fuse hadn't been burning already, her reaction was such that I think it could have lit it.

-SS

Thanks. I’m no expert, but have some friends who have had radical hysterectomies. My understanding from them was that HRT was given to them similar to the way that hormone therapy is given to women in natural menopause. Meaning that the HRT was not given to them to prevent menopause, but rather to manage the surgically induced menopause. Now, I don’t know because for myself, I went into chemically induced menopause from chemo treatment and cannot take any hormone therapy because of the cancer.

[Jackolar12]

Standing strong high cortisol levels can create a change in the brain state. Long term stress is a contributor among others.”Cortisol Can Trigger Stem Cells to Malfunction.
“The "stress hormone" cortisol is believed to create a domino effect that hardwires pathways between the hippocampus and amygdala in a way that might create a vicious cycle by creating a brain that becomes predisposed to be in a constant state of fight-or-flight.”
The same systems if in disregulation can alter individual perceptions of fears and behavioural responses to them. The common denominator that causes these changes are hormones.
Kind regards
Jack

[OffRoad]

So I have to ask. If menopause is the "cause" oF MLC, why do men end up in MLC?  Or does someone out there think there is no MLC  for men since they never enter menopause?

MOO, trying to force all MLC into menopause makes zero sense. Can chemical changes, including hormonal changes be a contributor? Sure. Maybe even what kicks it off. But that is more likely to do with individual chemical compositions and personality than trying to write it off as any kind of "change of life" thing. OR ALL OF US WOULD DO IT.

This is like saying menopause causes chemical changes in the body.  Chemical changes in Gerald are contributing to a mid life crisis. Geralds midlife crisis is caused by menopause.

Is someone trying to say there is no MLC for women, the ones that look like MLC is just an overactive case of menopause that the rest of us didn't get?

[OffRoad]

And HRT does not stop anyone from entering menopause. It just helps alleviate the hot flushes/flashes, headaches, etc for those that get them. The meno pauses no matter what you take.

[Treasur]

I honestly don't know the 'answer'. Could it contribute to depression as Nerissa said? Sure, I can see that. Or a feeling about aging and lost years? Sure, I can see that too. But for me, it is no different than any of the other discussions here about all the potential 'causes' from FOO to neurochemistry to mental health issues to CPTSD et al that seem to play a part in an individual's 'perfect storm'.

If I knew the answer, how would that serve me?
If I had known the answer before BD, how would that have served me?
If my xh had known the risks or causes before BD, would it have made any difference?
If the psychiatrist he saw had known the answer, would it have made any difference?

On the whole, my experience suggests No to most of the above. Or idk. ShockSis and other MLCers seem to say consistently that they are rarely open to advice or suggestions from others, particularly the LBS. There are people here who have experienced a feeling of 'not being quite right', whether hormonally, emotionally or mentally as LBS. And they made choices about how to handle that which did not include the kind of behaviour our spouses engaged in bc probably the core of their character and coping skills are different. When I was struggling, I turned to walking, faith and EMDR treatment; my xh chose antidepressants, running off with an ow, getting rid of his old life/friends, despising me and divorce. I have no idea how that is working out for him as a treatment plan....tbh it was hard enough to trudge through my own lol.

I respect that most LBS, including me, go through an extended time period of trying to unpick the cause of what happened to us. We do it for different reasons at different times probably, and it is a natural human thing to do. I respect that for some LBS it becomes an unscratched itch that they choose to invest energy in sometimes for many years.

I would humbly suggest that, often, investing the same amount of energy in understanding the causes of our own distress and solutions for our own healing is more likely to produce a tangible return....but I accept that each LBS has the right to plot their own path regardless of others opinions about it. We do each other a real service here on HS sometimes when we see patterns in each other that are perhaps not healthy or healing, and call them out with love. Like a mirror being held up. But people may not like that, or agree, or have reached that point and they have the right to plot their own course anyway.

[Songanddance]

And HRT does not stop anyone from entering menopause. It just helps alleviate the hot flushes/flashes, headaches, etc for those that get them. The meno pauses no matter what you take.

Correct and as someone who has been through menopause without any form of HRT (my GP and I discussed it at length and we agreed no) I can say that if I were to compare me and my H's MLC - yes there are many comparable symptoms - tiredness, anxiety, irrationality, depression, feelings of low self worth, inability to do what you used to be able to do, feeling that if only syndrome etc.....  The difference is I choose to face those and deal with the effects of Menopause head on.

My MLCer H chooses to run away emotionally, mentally and for 3.5 yrs with OW physically - it is his choice.

We all have choices and we all have to live with the consequences of those choices.

[Jackolar12]

So I have to ask. If menopause is the "cause" oF MLC, why do men end up in MLC?  Or does someone out there think there is no MLC  for men since they never enter menopause?

MOO, trying to force all MLC into menopause makes zero sense. Can chemical changes, including hormonal changes be a contributor? Sure. Maybe even what kicks it off. But that is more likely to do with individual chemical compositions and personality than trying to write it off as any kind of "change of life" thing. OR ALL OF US WOULD DO IT.

This is like saying menopause causes chemical changes in the body.  Chemical changes in Gerald are contributing to a mid life crisis. Geralds midlife crisis is caused by menopause.

Is someone trying to say there is no MLC for women, the ones that look like MLC is just an overactive case of menopause that the rest of us didn't get?

Hi Off road, some MLC not all,a possible contributing factor in some, im not sure MLC is the right word as the more I try to get my head into why it happens it seems more like an evolutionary process in both sexes driven by altered brain states possibly caused by the hormone cortisol and long term exposure to it. I’m sure you will agree in midlife and meno/Andropause there’s plenty of that circulating around.

 There’s also other factors to try and understand like bomb drop and why many former loving spouses seemingly switch to their polar opposites and hate their spouses. I believe this is caused by fears and altered perception originating from the limbic system and hormones crossing biologically pre set levels that have kept them stable for decades.

Their perceptions change suddenly it’s like flipping a biological switch In an already altered brain state that could cause a domino effect while they settle into a new normal and maybe why people assume it’s a crisis when they have just evolved along a different path and no longer see their spouse as beneficial to them.

There’s obviously a lot more to consider like the fog Foo issues returns and reconciliation in some but not all cases. This is a change in their biology and thought processes and how they view their world its a re-evaluation of their life that is not under their control and fuelled by hormones.

 My MLC thoughts relates to a female my former wife and my focus is on that, others may want to do the same with males it’s basically the same what drives it I believe is altered brain states and perceptions but there are some differences in the limbic systems.

If their perceptions return to normal they come back, if they don’t they likely won’t. And might explain why some return sooner, some much later, and some completely vanish for good as their brain state and perceptions of they former life’s value to them does not change.
Jack