Also, her mom is most likely a full fledged Narc IMO and she always berated her daughter over her appearance. She still does. Constant criticism and put downs.
Lousy mother, lousy wife, lousy no good daughter. Unaccomplished. A downright embarrassment. I heard all of these comments just last November 2018.
She will dump the divorce on her daughter, eventhough I'm really dumping her parents and maybe it will give her some motivation to do the same for her sake.
So it gives me a glimpse to her abusive upbringing. How does that help me ? It really doesn't. Yes I have compassion for her however she got rid of me and kept her tormentors/abusive parents.
She began to break in 2013 when her parents moved into our home. I dont see how she can recover if she cannot get rid of her mom. So she may just go down in history now being a Narc.
She has a lot of hurdles to overcome and I just don't see it happening. The damaged child rules the day.
Quoting because this resonates. My h grew up with and is still subjected to similar abuse.
I’d caution against deciding an MLCer is NPD or Cluster B anything, as these diagnoses are perceived as untreatable and therapy-resistant. If your spouse was more or less good prior to MLC, a Cluster B assignation is really throwing the baby out with the bath water. I understand it can help to label or “name it to tame it”, but just — continue to be aware and honest with yourself about whether your spouse was ok prior to MLC. My sense is that if they weren’t, or if they were always displaying Cluster B or narcissistic traits, you’d probably have divorced them early on.
My h definitely comes off as narcissistic and with his Masters and brief counseling practice, claimed Borderline Personality some short time before the EAs and PAs started showing up. Not sure which is chicken and which is egg. With my own clinical training and therapy work, it looks more to me like he is trying to fit himself into some defining label, even if it is a bad one. The overall impart being that this is a person who doesn’t know exactly how to define or like himself, largely because his upbringing taught him absolutely not to do either of those things.
This isn’t NPD or BPD. It’s the failure of caregivers to give care. That’s attachment trauma, and also child abuse, or just abuse, period. And maybe we can’t fault the MLCer’s parents, but if your spouse is still in contact with those parents, they are still getting those messages. That they shouldn’t define themselves and that they can’t be liked or loved.
It’s a sh!t way to live, and it’s deeply rooted. Clearly the love you showed your spouse was a healing. But midlife kicks all of us into life review, and a spouse who was never allowed to self-realize is going to have trouble doing it safely now.
Or maybe not; these are just my thoughts as formerly abused, very much therapized, and clinically trained in whatever relevant areas.
I will say this, though — if you think your spouse might be NPD or Cluster B, consider whether they are taking any medications or drugs that might be contributing to it. Benzodiazepines will absolutely diminish empathy over time. I was horrified to learn it but that has been the one common factor in every example I’ve personally known. There are other meds with this side effect also and of course any dependency or addiction is going to make a person behave differently and in ways we don’t like.
The thing about labeling NPD or other Cluster B is that then you’re faced with sort of eternal monstrosity. If you really have an NPD spouse, the common sense advice is to GET OUT of that marriage, because living with it will eventually wear out your health, physically as well as mentally, and there will never be safety enough for you to trust. The sadism and lying never ends.
DSM diagnoses are often very subjective and so you may have one diagnostician who says Yes, that’s NPD — while the one beside it will say No, that’s something else but with narcissistic tendencies or traits. We all have and display those to whatever degree. The bottom line is whether your spouse’s traits are ones you can live with or not, and then maybe the question becomes not “what’s wrong with them” but more “can I live with this and why or why not?”
I do my best to keep a high standard and to be that, with my h. Something is wrong with him and it’s a core issue; I know it’s painful for him. I know he is without tools to attend it properly, and/or the sh!t behaviors that he learned in childhood and onward still “work” for him. They don’t work for me. And although there were glimpses of these traits from the start, I would say he is now 95% different from the man I first loved. The real sweetness of him now all but gone, and in his place this bragging nervous lying cheat of a guy, less honest than just manipulative.
I can’t live with it. So maybe that’s one of the blessings of him being gone and living instead with ow, who he tries to cheat on constantly with me. The man he is now doesn’t seem to understand that I can’t live with that either, or else he simply doesn’t care.
If I think of him as NPD or Cluster B, that’s when I get terrified. You have to understand, these labels are commonly last resort and they stick maybe for life, even if they aren’t true or like anything else in the DSM are later overhauled, modified, or absolved. I have to think more along attachment trauma, generational sin, addiction of any type, or I will end up with one of these untreatable labels myself.
If your MLC spouse was basically good before MLC, there’s hope they will correct course and be good again in time.
If your MLC spouse is NPD, that’s never going to be ok or safe. Look to see if there are medications or addictions that amplify the MLC behaviors or traits, and know that those things can be adjusted, even if it is not your job or even your right to adjust them. Know that it isn’t your fault. But know also whether these traits are something you can live with, and if you find you can’t — DON’T. That’s about setting your boundaries, which is about your right to self preservation, and in the course of you correcting your environment, with luck it will lead ultimately to their understanding that it is time and necessary for them to course correct as well.
I’ve been through a lot in my life and “should have been” a candidate for a really outrageous MLC myself. His pitched me into pure survival mode and so maybe part of why I am not in MLC is that I absolutely cannot afford to go there.
Across the board, I want to say if you are married to NPD, don’t stay married to it.
Is your MLC'er a Narcissist?
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