[Savoir Faire]

This site has been a Godsend for most of us and we wouldn't be here still if it wasn't.

I read all of RCR's articles when I joined and my poor brain was so overwhelmed from the BD, I had to read them over and over again until some of it sank in.  I couldn't even read one page of a book at the time and found it almost impossible to work at my job. I persisted with the articles and actually listened t the advice given by all which was of course based on RCR's articles but at the time I needed them "dumbed down" and many forum members were able to hand me snippets of information as I needed them. It was at least two years before I could read the articles in full and another year or two before I could properly function at work.  I was surrounded by wonderful people who just put up with me and many of them didn't even know the extent of my pain or that I was even going through a divorce and extreme aggression by H at the time.  I wasn't sleeping much and I was struggling to understand what had happened to my wonderful husband who I had loved so much.

I have no doubt RCR is right and all the articles make perfect sense to me.  The difference is in the MLCer and LBS themselves. as we are all different people with different perceptions and some MLCers are more aggressive and defiant than others which makes each case of MLC a little different from the next ad each LBS is different too.

The essence of what RCR teaches is right and trying to see the MLCer in the most positive light possible is always the best option, if not for them, for ourselves and our emotional wellbeing.  The best thing we can all do is to focus on our own healing and advancement and to reflect on how far we have come and be as proud of that as possible.  If the MLCer ever does contact we are then in the best place possible to respond and not react as the inner work on ourselves is done and we are such better people for it.  As hard as it is to see MLC as a gift, in the end it really is.

[Nas]

I can’t quote right now, but I very much disagree with the Chevy analogy. A Chevy truck is a Chevy truck. It can’t be confused for a Toyota pick up truck or a Nissan pick up truck or any other kind of pick up truck. People who are Chevy truck enthusiast know what a Chevy truck is and there can be no mistaking it.

What is MLC? That’s been hotly debated. And even for those who agree on what it might be, it manifests itself in different ways in different people.

What IS universal is that all of us show up here because we’ve been hurt by, as Treasur calls it often, WIW (whatever it was).

If you don’t agree you should leave is not a only a confusing statement (agree with what? There’s multiple ideas from a variety of people seeking knowledge and help).
Is it “if you don’t agree with standing you should leave?”
I won’t put words in RCR’s mouth but I think she’s already made it pretty clear she definitely doesn’t feel that way.
   
Was RCR wrong? Wrong about what? About MLC being a journey that ultimately ends?
About detaching and not stage watching?
About protecting yourself emotionally and financially?
About putting down solid boundaries?

I found this site much more inclusive and liberal than any of the other sites. Incidentally, I’ve seen members leave here and go to another site I’m a member of and be literally kicked off and banned within hours of joining.

This site allows for a lot of things, in particular differences of opinion and venting of healthy anger. That’s the reason I’ve remained all along.
Some of the things that happen here would be immediately shut down elsewhere. In fact, ANY thread that focuses on an MLCer would be immediately removed from HB’s site and I can say that with absolute certainty. There is a degree of freedom and range of discussion here not afforded elsewhere.
And as uncomfortable as it might be when a thread blows up, I often find that the end result is that there are multiple takeaways that end up being useful for many people. Yes, maybe there would’ve been a better way to get there, but it is what it is.

I am very very troubled by this newfound idea, or maybe not newfound but definitely gaining notoriety, that there is a select group of people on here who are “persecuted.”

[nah]

Is RCR wrong?

IMO, I think most of her articles make sense.

I’m trying to find the one that says follow what the MLCer says.

I feel lately I’m being painted as negative Bc the site is being flooded with garbage from self-proclaimed MLCers. That’s not RCR.

For example... stage watching.

To paraphrase RCRs article (it’s been awhile since I read the articles, so feel free to make corrections)

She mentions stage watching isn’t healthy but we’re going to do it, so here’s the stages...
Then she lists the stages.

I interpret her style as similar to a doctor with a patient with heart disease, hey you should diet and exercise, but since you keep indulging in an unhealthy lifestyle, here’s some medication from big pharma, until you are ready to take the necessary steps. She doesn’t just bury you with the drugs bc it’s what you want, she gives you ALL the information.

I’m also trying to find when a newbie landed here battered and bruised and one of the “naysayers” yelled, “HE’S NOT COMING BACK!”, maybe I missed that, so correct me if I’m wrong.

IMO, the divided groups seem more pronounced on the MLCer threads. Should the “naysayers” skip these articles and hope they just die out?  Well, that’s the problem, they’re like a drug to an addict, instead of dying naturally, they are growing. I completely understand how a newbie would be drawn to these articles, I know I would have, but there are hundreds of these nonsense Facebook groups with these weak writers flooding Fakebook with this garbage.

That’s why I have a hard time “scrolling past”, not “policing and protecting” or whatever you want to call it. I feel balancing the “hey this awesome MLCer from Facebook is going to explain his fog-brain” with RCR’s advice of “let them be, focus on yourself” is just paying it forward bc that’s what I feel RCR’s articles taught me.

[trusting]

I think too that I remember someone else quoting him saying 'Which bit of the word crisis don't you understand?' 

Ah, yes, DGU did say that over and over. 

I first found this site maybe a year or a year and a half after BD.  I honestly don't remember, but a long time ago.  The site was new, the members so incredibly supportive of each other on the forum (so very different from now, from what I see).  There were few enough posters that we knew each others' stories and gave each other the encouragement, help, and hope we needed.

I guess I feel like "right" is relative.  The articles are very helpful and a good resource for understanding MLC.  Like everything, it isn't one size fits all.  I have seen my husband emerge/emerging from the tunnel, so I've seen the MLC all the way through, which did take a very long time.  One thing that I think isn't accurate necessarily is the time frame.  I think MLC takes longer than the 3-7 years in many cases, but that's just anecdotal. 

Information on the stages is valuable, but I don't think they go through them in a linear way necessarily, and may ping-pong their way back and forth. 

I was all about paving the way, both because of my desire to stand and because those types of behaviors fit with the faith lens I see life through.  I don't know if it's because of that or because of something else, but my H has been reconnecting big time with our family, closer than ever, very much a part of our lives, very much in communication.  We'll see where it leads.  Thankfully, he is a normal human being again, very, very much like the man I knew for so many years pre-MLC.

I know there is a lot of debate about the idea that "most" will try to return.  I honestly do think (again, anecdotally, based on stories I know and what I know about MLC, not based on any facts and figures or statistics) that most would WANT to return.  I don't think we see as many return stories as we would hope for various reasons.  First of all, the time needed for the MLCer to finish MLCing is so long that I think a lot of LBS give up and move on (very, very understandably) before they would even attempt a return.  Also, I wonder how many MLCers eventually want to return but are unable to due to guilt, shame, fear of unforgiveness, etc? I don't know.  I'm just thinking aloud.   Of course, some will always be in left field.

I do know that this site and the articles were a lifeline for me.  Yes, I watched my MLCer too closely (he was home for much of the MLC, so difficult not to, honestly). Yes, I spent more time worrying about the eventual outcome than focusing on me in the beginning.  But back then, 2x4s were delivered with a softer blow.  I got there eventually, as LBS do.  We don't all get to a healthy place at the same time.  Some take longer than others and do need more gentle reminders.  And that's okay.  Truly, it is.

And in response to another thread, which got so ugly I can't look anymore, I don't see anything wrong with hearing an MLCer's or former MLCers point of view.  It has helped me immensely, even at the stage I am now.  I found myself being able to see so much of what SS said in relation to what I have witnessed. 

[xyzcf]

nah:

but there are hundreds of these nonsense Facebook groups with these weak writers flooding Fakebook with this garbage.

It is not for anyone  to judge where other people find support. I read this FB site and what I see are many people who are trying to show care and support to one another which LBSers desperately need. As with other support groups, there is great value in being able to share with others who are going through the same experience.

The place that I find most helpful still is Rejoice Ministries. This would not appeal to many HS members because the message is that Prodigals do return, that prayer matters and there is always hope. I read this site every day. I especially enjoy Tuesday's devotions which are written by Bob Steincamp, from his perspective as a prodigal. I have received phone calls from volunteers, strangers who are praying for me, my family and our marriage.

So please stop criticizing what others find useful.

There is not one "one size fits all" to any of this.

I smiled when I read this from treasur this morning:

think there was a poster here called Don'tGiveUp who seemed to have an almost photographic memory and was very good at pulling out segments that might apply to individual situations. I think too that I remember someone else quoting him saying 'Which bit of the word crisis don't you understand?' 

He also had an incredible understanding of MLC. He has a friend whose wife went through a MLC and he was able to see first hand what transpired. Whenever I would "panic"..his words "what part of the word crisis don't you understand" would help to calm me down. Although he is extremely knowledgable about MLC, he taught me that there is life outside of this mess.

This is the kind of help I find useful. He cared about how I felt, he cared deeply but he never was unkind to me, no matter how long it took me to get with the program.

Some LBSers take longer than others. Each of us find what we need eventually, to heal and proceed with our lives......

[Nas]

Agreed Nah, I actually think the one saving grace that makes the “MLCer” threads worthwhile is the injection of differing views, interpretation and dissecting by long-timers of what the MLCer is/might be/could be saying.
Down the road, reading a thread with an MLCer’s words and multiple alternate interpretations of what they could mean “might” be helpful.
Reading just an MLCer’s words and heaps of praise with no questioning or pushback would just literally be a blind worshipping of a stranger on the internet, with no takeaways for current or future members.

[nah]

nah:

but there are hundreds of these nonsense Facebook groups with these weak writers flooding Fakebook with this garbage.

It is not for anyone  to judge where other people find support. I read this FB site and what I see are many people who are trying to show care and support to one another which LBSers desperately need. As with other support groups, there is great value in being able to share with others who are going through the same experience.

The place that I find most helpful still is Rejoice Ministries. This would not appeal to many HS members because the message is that Prodigals do return, that prayer matters and there is always hope. I read this site every day. I especially enjoy Tuesday's devotions which are written by Bob Steincamp, from his perspective as a prodigal. I have received phone calls from volunteers, strangers who are praying for me, my family and our marriage.

So please stop criticizing what others find useful.

There is not one "one size fits all" to any of this.

I think you missed my point.

Yes, I agree, there is not a “one size fits all”, and there are many helpful groups out there, I belong to other groups too but they are not this group.

A guess an example would be if I started to flood hero spouse with Chump Lady. Oh you don’t like Chump Lady?  Then don’t read what I post, stop policing me.

Chump Lady is not RCR so I would think cutting and pasting her advice on here would be inappropriate.

I think it would be a safe bet if I did start pulling Chump Lady’s advice over here, the same exact people who advice to “scroll  past” “block and ignore”, would have a hard time doing just that.

[xyzcf]

Hi nah,

Lots and lots of things are copied and pasted on HS. Articles of interest for example.

I do hear what you are saying though.

What I do when I read an article that I think might be of interest to others is I post the link to where to find that article. That way, people can go directly to the source. From the direct source, there is less likely to be misinterpretation or confusion of what the poster is actually saying.

Thanks for your input re this.

[nah]

Agreed 💯 XY.

[3Boys4Me]

Interesting topic. The only thing I might add, is that RCR has completed a near PhD level analysis of MLC. She has researched, analyzed, read and dissected the available literature - when I look at the resource index alone I can’t begin to imagine the time commitment required to learn, process and synthesize the information. And if not PhD, then clearly she would be considered a subject matter expert in lay terms.

What I appreciate about RCR, despite how heavily researched her opinion and analysis, she makes no guarantees, she’s clear to point out every MLC and MLCer is different and we each have the responsibility to chose for ourselves what works and what doesn’t.

I found the main site shortly after BD and I poured over the articles - reading and rereading them. I signed up for the forum once I knew there was an OW but only read a little bit - I don’t think I was “ready” yet to engage at that level. I think I focused on learning and the articles for about two years and now, in the last six months, I have found the forum to be extremely helpful in taking the right next steps.

Savvy, thank you for posting - I used to love reading books too and find I can’t anymore. I couldn’t function at work either and after a year and a half - I had to resign. I have done some freelance at home this last year but my brain doesn’t work like it used to - I absolutely must go back to work full time but I am no way able to perform the executive level functions of my “previous life” - I have felt like a huge failure in this regard, I am often still struggling to get through the day - we keep getting hit with repeated legal threats, so I am not out of the cycle of trauma yet. I appreciate knowing that maybe my experience of inability to focus and perform at work after 2.5 years is not necessarily atypical.  And thanks XY for the info about Rejoice Ministries - that sounds like something I might benefit from. Sorry for the quick hijack - I just wanted to thank Savvy and XY for bringing more healing to the table for me...