[Standing Strong]

It seems to me you are doing great for being so early in but...

“Not focusing only on yourself? Stand up to the monster? Get back into the fight?”

I’m not sure where RCR wrote your ideas. Do you believe RCR is wrong? Bc she wrote this -

Release is difficult. You are not only emotionally attached to your MLCer, but you are also attached to an outcome--you want to reconcile. Ironically the only way to achieve a true reconciliation is through releasing the attachment to it. That does not mean giving lip-service to release, but coming to a place where you can Accept with joy whatever outcome you receive.



Appropriately detached you will still be able to care, but you will also be able to function. Detachment is the first step in the process of release. Cut the cord (Detach); drop the rope (Let-Go), step to the side and Accept (Surrender).Detachment is at the behavioral and emotional level. Detach from your MLCer's emotions, otherwise you will cycle with him and his behaviors will create your emotions. Then learn to Surrender by first Letting-Go. Let-Go of any agenda, Let-Go of preconceived notions, Let-Go of expectations; the final Letting-Go is where you approach Surrender when you release control to God. It's also the hardest.[/b] Letting-Go is a process and you may grab on again many times, you reach Surrender when you no longer feel the need to take back control, but rather you trust in a Higher Power regardless of whether it is directing you to where you want to be or not. Surrender is a state of trust and Acceptance. him and his behaviors will create your emotions. Then learn to Surrender by first Letting-Go. Let-Go of any agenda, Let-Go of preconceived notions, Let-Go of expectations; the final Letting-Go is where you approach Surrender when you release control to God. It's also the hardest. Letting-Go is a process and you may grab on again many times, you reach Surrender when you no longer feel the need to take back control, but rather you trust in a Higher Power regardless of whether it is directing you to where you want to be or not. Surrender is a state of trust and Acceptance. where you approach Surrender when you release control to God. It's also the hardest. Letting-Go is a process and you may grab on again many times, you reach Surrender when you no longer feel the need to take back control, but rather you trust in a Higher Power regardless of whether it is directing you to where you want to be or not. Surrender is a state of trust and Acceptance.

Again, it’s about letting go, detach from them (aka... stop focusing on them) and focus on YOU.

Sorry if these words seem negative but they are directly from RCR.

Is RCR wrong?

Hey Nah,
It's understandable to think this is the only goal....... maybe it rightfully is for some. Absolutely for those with a vanisher or some other limited contact. Also for sanity and healing. I think what that sentence is talking about is giving in to whatever happens next and being at peace with it or you will carry it forever. Let go. Even if someone chooses to fight, we still understand that we don't get to choose the end result, we're just trying to improve the odds and removing our self as a possible reason for the running (at least that's what I feel).

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By RCR:
Stop Fearing Monster!
Are you afraid of Monster? Do you avoid your MLCer because of your fear? Or maybe you avoid certain topics?
There are two main fears here.

Self-Protection [Standings thoughts: Here is where most people fall in mirror-work, and stay there. People all the time are talking about saving themselves exclusively]
Avoidance [Standings thoughts: Most LBS's do this, they can't stand their MLC'er and it's too painful. The article is talking about things not to do, or at least not to do for too long = Self-Protection and Avoidance]

Self-Protection
I don’t want to face what he will do or say.
I don’t want to hear it.
I don’t think I can handle it.

 It seems that if I stay out of the eye of the storm it may save me from a lot of hurtful things that may be harder to forgive in the long run.
This is the initial common motivation for avoiding Monster. You don’t want to deal with what you will might feel. This can be a form of denial. If I don’t have to hear or see it, it’s not real. It’s how many avoid facing the affair and thus avoid healing from the betrayal.
I get it. I’ve been there. You don’t want to have to hear your MLCer tell you that the alienator is his soul mate. It’s not always about not wanting to hear valid blame that you don’t want to face, sometimes it’s just about not wanting to hear about his new feelings.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Whether your ears are open or not, he’s still feeling those feelings. That does not mean he’s interpreting his feelings correctly; in-fatuation is about hormones; but he doesn’t understand that.
No Contact is a form of self-protection, but are you using it as an avoidance that masks as self-protection. Monster can be volatile and distance is protective. Distance does protect you from hearing those hurtful things and it may even prevent those hurtful things from being verbalized.
But No Contact is not meant to keep you from hearing things that are unpleasant.
You don’t like what Monster has to say? Well, Monster doesn’t like what you have to say either. Are you avoiding listening to something that might include valid complaints? Or are you just staying away from spew? I know Monster can say hurtful things. But choosing to be hurt is within your control. Choosing to understand and acknowledge that those words are coming from Monster is within your control.

Avoidance
I am afraid of what he will do or say.
I’m afraid he will say he is going to file for divorce.
I’m afraid he will leave.
I’m afraid he won’t come back.
The elephant has been sitting in that room for months. You both tip toe around it. You don’t want it mad, it might start stomping. And worse, you don’t want it anxious because it might get an upset tummy and get gassy or (you know)…and do you don’t want an elephant accident as you are walking behind it! No, be careful of elephants and don’t rock boats.
And so if you have an at-home MLCer you live with the constant tension. If your MLCer lives somewhere else, you feel like you are in a state of limbo, not knowing what your life is now or will be in the future.

Is this working for you?

Maybe your MLCer will say he’s filing. Many say it without doing it. Maybe your MLCer will leave. Most leave and for most MLC situations that is probably what is needed for progress. If something doesn’t change—DUH—nothing will change.
So as it is now, you would rather have today’s misery than risk improvement because between now and that future improvement there may be a lot more hardship—and today’s misery is nothing compared to how much worse things may get.
I’m sorry. But that’s life. That’s how it is. I want to add that it’s not how I’d make life work if I could dictate it, but when I think further, that’s not true. Not anymore. It is through the challenges we face that we blossom into our fullest potential.

Throw some darts and maybe even some larger Truth Arrows. Initiate change.

 I try to be positive, validating, and kind. If I get angry that activates him.
Niceness is wonderful; it is important in Paving the Way. But are you avoiding Truth Darts to such a degree that it often appears as though you are not merely accepting of the situation but that you are approving of it as well?
I understand the desire to avoid Monster, but you have been placating.
Paving the Way is about being cordial, but it is not about placating; it also includes Truth Darts. So where are the Truth Darts? Are your actions so kind, comforting and soothing that you are enabling the adultery and abandonment because there are no obstacles?

Practice Makes Growth
I don’t really want to talk to him. I am afraid he will slam me with Monster.
Good chance. So? What does that mean? What will happen if he slams you with Monster?

Will you die?                                                           Doubtful
Will you cry (in front of him)?                              Maybe
Will you react and escalate the argument?        Maybe
Will it hurt?                                                             Probably
Will you feel agitated during and afterwards?   Probably

Dealing with Monster teaches us how to interact in a difficult situation. You will get to practice responding rather than reacting. And yes, you will mess up; deal with it, learn from it and let it help you grow.
As you learn to be responsive rather than reactive you will be influencing  by example. An MLCer may initially resist, but your responsiveness is a seed.

Worms
I knew he would be looking for a fight before too long; it’s my fault for taking the bait.
Just because he was looking for a fight does not mean you should always walk away or back down. Truth Darts aren’t bait and neither is telling him to go ahead and follow through on his threats. Do you keep thinking that you are biting worms and that you should back off when threatened by Monster or that you should avoid an encounter or topic if you think Monster will make an appearance.
MLCers make threats. They bait you. Are you a fish? Do you want to eat worms?
Like it or not the MLCer will test. So learning to respond without biting the bait is to your benefit.

Boundaries
Monster will test your boundaries, giving you the opportunity to practice maintaining them and remaining consistent. If your MLCer makes threats and your reaction is to concede, you are teaching him how to control you and get what he wants—which is not the same as what a person needs.
Keep practicing. You are going to bend and sometimes you will concede. So get back on that tightrope and the next time you will be better prepared able to maintain. Boundary maintenance improves with your growth.

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So to me...... Self-Protect is temporary. Heal, get up, get in there. Stand fast against the raging of the storm. Avoidance is bad news altogether. Out of sight, out of mind. The test isn't just about how bright you shine, it's that you shine near that MLC black hole so they can see your light. All of this requires us to get up and get close enough to our MLC'er that we are effective. If they come to us is up to them, so yeah.... detach...... that doesn't mean save yourself, run and hide.
Well, that was my interpretation.
-SS

[Acorn]

Self-Protection (Here is where most people fall in mirror-work, and stay there. People all the time are talking about saving themselves exclusively)
Avoidance (Most LBS's do this, they can't stand their MLC'er and it's too painful. The article is talking about things not to do, or at least not to do for too long = Self-Protection and Avoidance) 

Standing, are the bolded words yours?

[Standing Strong]

Self-Protection (Here is where most people fall in mirror-work, and stay there. People all the time are talking about saving themselves exclusively)
Avoidance (Most LBS's do this, they can't stand their MLC'er and it's too painful. The article is talking about things not to do, or at least not to do for too long = Self-Protection and Avoidance) 

Standing, are the bolded words yours?

Yup, those are mine.... the rest was just big things I took from it. Sorry for the confusion.

-SS

Ok, I put brackets on my thoughts so as not to confuse anyone. And turned them red, and put my name next to them.  Really respect RCR's work and didn't mean to be misleading or anything like that. You start typing and it makes sense to you, but someone on the other side...... you know: translation. Thank you so much for pointing that out to me.

I've gotta say too... that article and the "Stop Fearing Monster part 2" really shaped how I felt and dealt with MLC when I was brand-new and just trying to hang on. Sure wasn't easy, but it was necessary. Forever thankful and grateful to RCR for helping me in such a profound way.

[Acorn]

Thank you for clarifying that, Standing.
One can never be too careful. 

[gman242]

my two cents, FWIW..

I got here, three, four years ago? The tone of the forum in many ways was standing with an emphasis on the whole detaching and GALing; which is the ay it should be and it's the hardest thing for newbies to grasp. They (and me included then) wanted to hear that we should hold out for hope and maybe more subtly, if we do XYZ, we'll get them back.

Something changed though.. I think the long timers were getting tired of of saying GAL to the new people. Some people were saying they were being re triggered by the new people. I think it honestly turned into older, cool kids in the back of the bus and freshmen up front kind of thing.  Some drama happened, some people announced they were leaving, some left without ceremony.

Then the language of the forum changed. We're supporting one another still, but now we're just saying "take care of you" and "protect your finances" and not "mirror work" and "paving the way". I see people helping people but what I don't see is people taking the language message of the website as verbatim as when I first joined. Maybe that's why people fell like we're not encouraging people to stand anymore. 

I agree with Brain's summary in the first post. I don't hate my ex wife. I know what she's been through in her life.. I understand how she became this twisted monster she's being right now.

I maintain if I'm focusing on me and S and really doing mirror work, does anything else even matter? No.. you get to riding a bike without thinking about it. You've insulated yourself from the fear and worry of falling off and you're just doing it. That's all that matters. I think that's the point.

Me personally, I don't care for anything that suggests that you can somehow game the system or trick your MLCers into wanting you back. I'm not speaking of anything in particular, but i've read a lot of things that are just bad advice out there. Think of it this way, if you acted a certain way and your MLCer wanted to come home, would you want them home because you jedi mind tricked them or because they actually "woke up" did the work on themselves and wanted to come home?

Standing is about standing still or being a doormat. I always liked the idea that you can stand for you, as just a time out to do your own work.

[Whyus]

Standing is (NOT, I guess thats what you meant gman.) about standing still or being a doormat. I always liked the idea that you can stand for you, as just a time out to do your own work.
That would be a great reason to stand and probably the right way to get your feet back on the ground.

I agree with what morte said though, that is bang on imho. A sister from anothere mother 

[Treasur]

Interesting, gman, that you see a shift in perspective....sounds as if from your POV is it less about promoting NOT standing but more about less active promotion of standing? Or standing actions maybe?

Idk if I see it as my right or responsibility to encourage anyone to Stand or not. It's a complicated concept and a very personal choice that probably includes how you view Standing in your own situation. But I don't think I have ever suggested that someone should file for divorce or stop Standing either. I have definitely encouraged people to prioritise their own safety and sanity and financial security, to seek legal advice even if they are not ready to act on it and to limit their contact with things and people that are profoundly damaging to their wellbeing. And where there is significant physical or psychological abuse I think you need to get to a safe place first before you can figure out anything with a good working mind.  I suppose that is bc my honest belief....which could be wrong....is that very little we LBS do has a significant constructive impact on what the MLC spouse says or does. But we probably can do things that limit the scale of the damage sometimes? And we can definitely choose not to do things that add to the damage, chaos or drama.

There is a period of time for many of us maybe when focusing on our own needs as a priority feels as if it is a choice to not care about our spouses at all, to reject them in order to choose ourselves...often at a time when we still feel married and that our spouse is a self-destructive distressed mess....so it feels like a very hard either/or choice for our hearts to make doesn't it?

I think most folks come here wanting to Stand and looking for some kind of hope that their marriage and family will survive it. As things unfold, each LBS walks their own path towards their own conclusions about all of it - their history, their spouse, MLC, what they need to survive, how to react to new challenges or info or events, how to live regardless of what their ex/spouse is doing, what to do, how to feel, what they believe, what they want from what seems to be available. No wonder it takes time lol.

I like Standers. I like stories of healing and healthy reconnection. I susoect though there is a v1 and v2 of Standing. V1 is where we all start and some of that is probably in lieu of not knowing what else to do. V1 keeps us upright enough to reach a point where we can make a more conscious decision in our own unique situation about v2 of Standing as a longer term choice perhaps.

[Acorn]

RCR is just one person, with one ''MLCer''

<snip>

So is RCR right? Well she was apparently right for HER situation. That doesn't mean she is right for every situation.

And even though she has lots of brilliant articles the next step is how people will interpret those articles, and then bend them to fit their own narrative.

Dang, girl, you already posted what I wanted to say! 

I would like to add that RCR’s articles can also be used to justify LBS’s actions to explain (excuse) away controlling, fixing and, generally, condescending attitude toward their MLCer who must be ‘helped’ and ‘saved.’  In other words, to beef up one’s ego that he/she is being proactive and effective in pushing MLCer through the tunnel.   Speaking from experience... 

My personal history:

The definitions of ‘monster’, ‘self protection’, ‘avoidance’, ‘truth darts’  were different for me as they had to be readjusted to my unique circumstances.  Besides, H and I are not clones of RCR and Chuck.  We are much older.  Grown kids.  Different R dynamics, personal/marital history, beliefs, etc etc. 

For example, truth darts were a misfit for us.  I ditched them altogether when I saw that was not me or H at all.  They were viewed by us, pre-BD, as snarky, preach-y, condescending and mean.  That’s just us, though.  A sample of one! 

[Not Applicable]

Standing, it seems odd that you have all these theories about handling monster when you don't even have a monstering MLCer.

I think it is important that this be said because someone could come along and read what you have to say in three years and think it is based on practical experience when it isn't.

As someone who had a very monster MLCer for a long time, the best way to deal with one is simply to avoid them when they are in monster mode. Refuse to interact, find your peace elsewhere. Nothing good will come of it and if they don't monster at you they will find someone else to monster at, so you aren't depriving them of anything they can't get elsewhere.

[gman242]

Standing is (NOT, I guess thats what you meant gman.) about standing still or being a doormat. I always liked the idea that you can stand for you, as just a time out to do your own work.
That would be a great reason to stand and probably the right way to get your feet back on the ground.

I cant post much as my posts aint getting through the freedom of speech destroying mod web!
I agree with what morte said though, that is bang on imho. A sister from anothere mother 

Your edit is correct my friend!