[Acorn]

Just a random question to any moderator if you are reading. 

Are the posts of those under moderation moderated by one person or do you need consensus of other mods?

[gman242]

Interesting, gman, that you see a shift in perspective....sounds as if from your POV is it less about promoting NOT standing but more about less active promotion of standing? Or standing actions maybe?

Idk if I see it as my right or responsibility to encourage anyone to Stand or not. It's a complicated concept and a very personal choice that probably includes how you view Standing in your own situation. But I don't think I have ever suggested that someone should file for divorce or stop Standing either. I have definitely encouraged people to prioritise their own safety and sanity and financial security, to seek legal advice even if they are not ready to act on it and to limit their contact with things and people that are profoundly damaging to their wellbeing. And where there is significant physical or psychological abuse I think you need to get to a safe place first before you can figure out anything with a good working mind.  I suppose that is bc my honest belief....which could be wrong....is that very little we LBS do has a significant constructive impact on what the MLC spouse says or does. But we probably can do things that limit the scale of the damage sometimes? And we can definitely choose not to do things that add to the damage, chaos or drama.

There is a period of time for many of us maybe when focusing on our own needs as a priority feels as if it is a choice to not care about our spouses at all, to reject them in order to choose ourselves...often at a time when we still feel married and that our spouse is a self-destructive distressed mess....so it feels like a very hard either/or choice for our hearts to make doesn't it?

I think most folks come here wanting to Stand and looking for some kind of hope that their marriage and family will survive it. As things unfold, each LBS walks their own path towards their own conclusions about all of it - their history, their spouse, MLC, what they need to survive, how to react to new challenges or info or events, how to live regardless of what their ex/spouse is doing, what to do, how to feel, what they believe, what they want from what seems to be available. No wonder it takes time lol.

I like Standers. I like stories of healing and healthy reconnection. I susoect though there is a v1 and v2 of Standing. V1 is where we all start and some of that is probably in lieu of not knowing what else to do. V1 keeps us upright enough to reach a point where we can make a more conscious decision in our own unique situation about v2 of Standing as a longer term choice perhaps.

Treasur, I agree.. I was just saying I think the language of the forum changed from the specific standing / MLC specific language on the website, to one of just general support. Like you're saying, we've all been through this and we're here either way and it's not our business to tell you one thing or another. That's where I feel the tone of the forum has gone in the time I've been here.

I guess the drama on the forum will always be persistent. However, just because people give plain support, that doesn't mean that anyone is saying you can't have hope, love your monstering MLCer, get divorced or whatever you choose. We just want people to be safe and to take care of their well being, all the way around.

I think that can be interpreted by some as encouraging a "not standing" message, however the one thing I do agree with is that the "what are you doing for you?" message can seem like one to abandon your MLCer and that's not true. It just means, you need to heal yourself before you can even begin to think about moving onto the next step, whatever that is, for you.

 

[UrsaMajor]

Just a random question to any moderator if you are reading. 

Are the posts of those under moderation moderated by one person or do you need consensus of other mods?

Approval of a moderated post can be done by any single Mod if, after review, they find no violations of the Code. Removal or denial of a post is done by consensus of at least 2 or more Mods in order to avoid any form of personal bias or censorship.

[Acorn]

Just a random question to any moderator if you are reading. 

Are the posts of those under moderation moderated by one person or do you need consensus of other mods?

Approval of a moderated post can be done by any single Mod if, after review, they find no violations of the Code. Removal or denial of a post is done by consensus of at least 2 or more Mods in order to avoid any form of personal bias or censorship.

Thank you very much for the clarification, UM!
Good to know.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I was just saying I think the language of the forum changed from the specific standing / MLC specific language on the website, to one of just general support. Like you're saying, we've all been through this and we're here either way and it's not our business to tell you one thing or another. That's where I feel the tone of the forum has gone in the time I've been here.

This is why I started this thread. It felt to me like there was a huge gap between the spirit of the articles on the website and the spirit of the forum. It felt to me like the forum was going in a different direction than that suggested by the articles on the website. Which made me wonder if the general belief of the forum members now is that RCR and her articles are wrong about MLC being a crisis that changes the person going through it and takes time to resolve.

Was RCR right when she wrote the following overview of MLC? If so, are these beliefs reflected in the discussions and advice given on this forum?

There are many who witness the Cycling and Chaotic behaviour and conclude that Midlifers know exactly what they are doing. Since the behaviour cycles, there are pockets of rationale and clarity. Some are able to compartmentalize their lives, functioning at work and other activities away from the home. It is not that the Midlifers do not care, but rather that they must shield themselves from caring. They feel they must do whatever it is they are doing even when internally admitting it is wrong. They steel themselves emotionally; but they are not without guilt; rather I believe that for many it is the opposite. Their guilt is so immense that the burden is overwhelming. They are running from the demons within themselves and from the burdening reminders of guilt from the spouse, whether she is actively laying guilt or not. In addition, OWs add guilt by forcing responsibility for their happiness and success on the midlifer, and then by punishing him when he cycles between her and his wife.

Midlifers are not always aware of their actions. There is an awareness within each moment, but a global absence of awareness; this only becomes clear later. Driven by emotions, Midlifers are moment and self focused and often unable to link consequences and understand the relation of their behaviour to the external world. Their memory becomes fuzzy; though they may be aware of their actions during each present moment, in clarity they may not recall what takes place during fog and vice versa.

From the Overview article.
https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview.html

[megogirl]

RCR is very, very intelligent.

“Wrong” or “right”, I think we can all agree on that.

[Treasur]

I wonder, Brain, if some of us lose our initial belief in MLC over time or as a consequence of events? Which is ok if we do but maybe those of us further down the line might be encouraged by this thread to honestly look at that. Bc it probably shades our posts especially if we are responding to others.

I don't know what I think about MLC now tbh. Either generally or with regard to my xh.
I think I cycle and end up feeling I just don't know. I do see the patterns in others stories and it seems much easier to see MLC type Bonkers and script in some of them. So tbh I am inconsistent in my own thinking about MLC and about how I see others situations and my own experience.

The gift of time is detachment, a less rose-coloured eye and less pain, that's true.
The disadvantage of time perhaps is that it becomes less easy to remember the old normal and the sharp shock of the WTF times. I know that initially I had no doubt that something very weird had happened to my then h. And when I was exposed to his irrational or strange behaviour, it was easier to see some kind of MLC like crisis. And when we were still married to hope that my h would return to someone who was more recognisable and more normal. Ha, crazy times 

But after divorce, a long period of limited contact with a vanisher that became NC.....the only evidence of it, good and bad, is in my memory. And I often doubt my memory now. It is the last great LBS puzzle piece perhaps, deciding for yourself how to describe what really happened in your life. But I can see that my own doubt probably does, without it being a conscious intention, pull me away from HS/MLC flavoured responses and towards ones that focus on the more tangible needs of an LBS who is struggling with anxiety say or trying to protect their kids from distress or feeling tortured by contact with a boomerang that is making them feel worse or a spouse who is trashing their finances. These things are easier to see as priorities for someone in pain to deal with or heal from regardless of whether you think MLC is the reason or not aren't they?

But your thread has prompted me to think about what I believe now. Or don't. And how that might subtly shade my responses or posts. Even to wonder if there is a point in time, if one decides that one no longer believes in MLC enough, that it might be appropriate for some older timers like me (if that is what I conclude about my own beliefs) to step away from posting on an MLC focused site even if your intentions are good. Idk.

[marvin4242]

But after divorce, a long period of limited contact with a vanisher that became NC.....the only evidence of it, good and bad, is in my memory. And I often doubt my memory now.

This is a great observation, specially in light of the shock, the completely irrational behaviour, all the WTF moments. One thing I started very early on was to keep a running journal of my interactions with my wife, and that invaluable in many ways. First it helped me keep my thoughts straight, specially in the early confused and puzzled days. And now every so often, when I start to doubt my own assessment and revert my wife to her "old normal" self and wonder did I just simply make it all up it makes for a great refresher to remind me, no, this was NOT normal.

And reading the journal along with looking at old pictures and more recent pictures and the look in my wifes face really drives home how this IS NOT the same person, not the same psychologically coherent person, and is a highly fractured and disordered person.

So I urge every newbie to keep a journal of sorts, as it may one day help them keep the reality more in line with what really happened. Otherwise we will tend to drift as you said.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

But after divorce, a long period of limited contact with a vanisher that became NC.....the only evidence of it, good and bad, is in my memory. And I often doubt my memory now.

Treasur, I'm sorry that you doubt your memory but there's a very good reason for you to do so. The mind's top priority is survival. That's how I became what I am today. When I was little my mind dissociated and then fractured my personality in order to protect me from overwhelming trauma. It protected me from having to acknowledge the reality of the situation I was experiencing so that I could survive without becoming, as my therapist put it, "truly crazy".

BD is also an occasion where we experience overwhelming trauma. It becomes easier to deal with if you can convince yourself as time goes by that your memories of life before BD are wrong. It's a survival mechanism. It reduces the pain and makes it easier to go on living. It might be helpful for long term LBSes but it isn't helpful for newcomers if rewriting your memories of a good marriage and good spouse before BD takes away from your ability to acknowledge the huge change they've seen in their MLCer.

Great observation Marvin. I have a home movie I made about 10 years ago that has my wife in it. At one point she turns toward me and the camera and I can clearly see the person she was and I know without a doubt that she loved me.

[marvin4242]

have a home movie I made about 10 years ago that has my wife in it. At one point she turns toward me and the camera and I can clearly see the person she was and I know without a doubt that she loved me.

And this is SO crucial imho, in light of the absolute and confusing statements they tend to say. My wife threw everything from "ILYBINILWY", to "I never loved you", to "you repulse me." And considering we, at the time, still see these broken variant with the same power and trust and they are allowed so far into our inner world how can we NOT doubt ourselves. As you said yourself our minds NEED to create a coherent story of what is happening, so one version is we also may start rewriting the past. This is very much like children in dysfunctional families who at some level realize their parent are not ok and not safe, but have to rewrite the experience and put it on themselves to be able to survive.

I also look back and see pictures and remember events, and people who knew us very well, and there was NO DOUBT how much she loved me before she fractured. Its just hard to hold the truth when confronted with the avalanche of rewriting they do in an attempt to make coherent their own conflicted inner selves.