[Finding Joy]

Marvin-The reason these things are not discussed is because truly half of the country believes a completely different way and the other half has an opposite opinion with very little common ground.  It is incredibly divisive and just like you and I are both coming from a completely different starting place, so are the two sides of the aisle here.  If we discuss these things with people who are not like minded, trust me, we would struggle to then work with them afterwards.

[Finding Joy]

NAS!  What troubles you?  My sarcasm with a wink.  Half of our country wants to live off of the other half!  Believes they should get handed everything in life.  That was my implication.  I stand by it.

Have a nice day!

[Finding Joy]

I have decided to stay off of this discussion from this point on.

Let me say, This has become a post that is bashing my country.  I absolutely am aggravated at the things being said.

XYZ, NAS, you guys said we should stay home?  So shouldn’t everyone stay home?  Let me make it clear, I agree with Trumps policies, but he as a person is something else entirely.  He has every right to stop immigration temporarily, he did it because we have a shortage of jobs now, not because of xenophobia.

Also, if people are going to come over here, become a citizen and then get on an international forum bashing our country, we maybe need to make sure new citizens have some loyalty before allowing them in to begin with.

Xyz, you just called the US president a dictator.  Seriously!  I find this entire post incredibly insulting.

By the way, if you could all list your home country, I can do some digging and start a few topics bashing your home.  I’m pretty sure suddenly you will understand my frustration.

[Finding Joy]

My Brain, I’m sorry I forgot to reply!

Absolutely!  There are ways around all of this.  Many of us currently pay into a public school system we are unhappy with. 

The answer is attribute the tax dollar to the individual child and let the parent chose where they go. 
Or as another option, I do prefer the first, the public school system in my view could be reduced to a safety net.  This would mean the greater public foots the bill for the poor.  Then the tax liability is lower and people can chose a school for their children because all of their money is not going to taxes.

Both of these options would mean only the best schools survive and of course scholarships at private schools are always available to the poor for option b.

My opinion as a school choice advocate for 15 years.

Florida is number 1 in school choice.  They actually have a totally different system.  They have school choice for special needs, the poor and the middle class.  Businesses donate and get a right off.  A dollar amount is assigned to the child if they qualify and they can pick their school.

We live on base and the schools are horrible. So for many public schools are not viable!

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I'm not a Native American but my family's roots in this country go back to the 1850s so I hope I will be allowed to mention one of this country's problems without it being considered bashing.

FJ has made a good point about the public school system in the USA. There are huge inequities between school districts and that's just wrong. Every child in this country deserves to have access to a quality education and we're hurting ourselves by not providing it because we're limiting those children's potential to become informed and productive citizens. In that respect I can understand FJ's concerns about the public schools but I'm not sure those inequities are only found in the United States. I'll just say that I wish that every child of both genders everywhere in the world had access to a quality, unbiased education and leave it at that since I don't know what this topic has to do with Covid-19.

Speaking of the 1850s, I wonder if the level of polarization in this country back then was any where near the level we seem to be experiencing today.

[Nerissa]

Well in better news, amidst the sorry state of our UK government’s inadequate  efforts, the BBC Bitesize education service has put together an entire term’s worth of school Lessons to support parents  homeschooling and so we  have Sir David Attenborough and Prof Brian Cox guest teaching !  Ed Balls, a former Chancellor of the Exchequer is teaching Maths  And some nice footballer is teaching European languages I believe.

Time for me to go back to school I think!

[Watcher]

Oh it was much worse in 1850. The Compromise of 1850 established which new territories, acquired via Mexico as spoils for our victory during the Mexican-American War in 1848, were to be admitted as slave or free.

Yea I think there is no comparison as we were heading to the American Civil War. Bleeding Kansas. Fugitive Slave Act. Dread Scott Decision.

U.S. Senator Charles Sumner being almost beaten to death with a cane on the U.S. Senate floor by a South Carolina Congressman in 1856.

Yea no comparison at all. Could that ever happen to Chuckie Schumer. Nah, I think he is safe.   

Unless we are heading to another American Civil War. I think there is simply no comparison at all in American History. Period.

Now if you want to throw in Native Americans into the mix, The Trail of Tears encompassed 1830-1850. That was the forcible removal of Native Americans from the Southeastern United States.

The U.S. government also gave them the nice departing package of smallpox infected blankets.

Yep. I vote 1850's were way worse.

[marvin4242]

I am still confused honestly. The people who started politicizing this topic are upset that the topic has become, well, politicized? That everyone else doesn’t just roll over and “accept” factually incorrect statements? Or doesn’t let slide attacks on differing opinions? Or on immigrants?

FJ your last posts are beyond offensive. I am an immigrant who provides jobs for over 50 people, quite a few of them veterans. If I wasn’t “allowed in” as you say three companies would not exist. And I did take an oath of loyalty, but that is not the same as blind obedience. And yes a President who keeps saying he has “absolute power” is pretty much saying he is a dictator. So what is so surprising?

FJ critical analysis is not bashing. Flag waving blindly is not patriotism. I think you are confusing pointing to flaws as being unpatriotic. Btw it ithe duty of citizens of a country to comment on their weaknesses. As an American I have every right and even responsibility to point to our flaws and a duty to try to make them better.

My point was that people even with very differing views should be able to have civil conversations, share viewpoints, differ respectful and factually present ideas. When did this become such a charged and sensitive thing?

[Finding Joy]

Marvin!  Again you twist my words, I am not anti immigration.  This is why I cannot discuss this with you.  We are not speaking the same language.  We do not understand where the other is coming from.

My point was, this is not a national forum, but international.  If you want to bash our country do it in house.  You came over to a country that has endless opportunities and now internationally complain.  I am also beyond offended at every post you have written to me undermining, belittling, and making it out that your information is correct and mine is false.  This is why I do not wish to interact with you particularly.  Feel free to debate with others!  Also, I am not the original person who made this political.  I kept reading people bash our leadership and that’s when I got on. 

Thank you.

[xyzcf]

I read some interesting statistics about the role of immigrants in this time of COVID.

"6.3 million immigrants hold jobs that are key to fighting coronavirus

1 in 4 doctors in the US are immigrants
38% of home health aides are immigrants
22% of workers in the US food industry are immigrants
37% of meat processing industry workers are immigrants
35% of crop production workers are immigrants
483,000 immigrants work in grocery stores
69% of California's agricultural workers are immigrants
34% of metro, bus and taxi drivers are immigrants
6 million immigrants work in industries that are laying off large numbers of workers"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/us/immigrants-coronavirus-frontlines/index.html

It is not bashing to seriously look at the inadequacies of a country. To consider ways to make this society a better place.

A term that is used in the medical world and elsewhere is "best practices". It means that you look at the research from around the world on various treatments and ideas and apply those best practices to create a better outcome for patients.

It is not bashing to express different view points, in a respectful and polite manner.

To be told over and over to "take my toys and go home" and to make declarations about my homeland that are not true, that is a problem for me.

The world experts are the ones who are outlining what we must do to save lives, and one of those things is to avoid contact with others. Staying at home unless it is for an essential service or an essential need will save lives.

Protesting in large groups, not at all practicing any kind of distance between protestors, not wearing masks...those individuals are going to spread COVID into the community and cause deaths. Deaths I would prefer to avoid.