[xyzcf]

Previous thread:
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11445.0

Recent articles posted by HS members on previous thread:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-3-day-average

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/anthony-faucis-boss-on-why-things-could-be-much-better-soon.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB&fbclid=IwAR3ae0nX0qFVHCG_MttS0cwiAS0lK_cYDEcJHBybdIR_TBCuzmOhB7-zmbs

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/09/1004935/these-are-the-factors-that-put-you-at-higher-risk-of-dying-from-covid-19/?utm_source=digg

There are several others and it is great that members are contributing to this body of knowledge from their reading and around the world.

[Milly]

Joining the new thread, xy. Thank you.

[marvin4242]

More data in an intriguing correlation between TB vaccine and reduction in mortality. I haven’t seen any theories as to why, but it seems data shows a correlation on countries that have a consistent TB vaccination policy and reduction in deaths when all other factors are accounted for. It doesn’t appear enough to recommend vaccinations, at least not right now. But it may an interesting path to follow about why and how it could be used.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/07/07/2008410117

[xyzcf]

So much research being done worldwide.

Everyday, new information is added to the body of knowledge.

I was very interested in the article marvin posted concerning BCG vaccination both because I was given BCG as a child in Quebec and I once was head of a tuberculosis program in the public health dept that I worked in.

Here is the issue though, information like this comes out and well meaning people think, ok, let's start giving people BCG. However, the vaccine itself has several risks and the following is a concern when it comes to identifying actual cases of tuberculosis.

"Another concern with the administration of BCG is its effect on the tuberculin skin test. Because administration of BCG induces a positive skin test of variable size in a large proportion of vaccinated individuals, this reaction will make the interpretation of skin test results in contact tracing more difficult and, thus, damage a valuable tool in the control of TB transmission in the community."

As an aside, if you have ever had a positive skin test (and the measurement that indicates it to be positive depends on several facts so best to consult and expert on this) you should not have another skin test done as it can get progressively larger each time you are given it.

Many of you may have received a Mantoux test to rule out that you have been exposed to TB or have active disease. I have a very severe reaction to this test most probably because I received BCG as a child. Vaccines do not give us complete immunity to a disease so I could still get TB...only a skin test, which is one of the main tools used to determine if I have been exposed is useless in my case.

The problem with all the misinformation floating about is that immunology is very complicated and the ordinary person is not really going to be able to understand some or most of it.

The CDC does an amazing job of simplifying information so that the general public can understand infectious diseases better.

I am terribly disturbed that the US is going to withdraw from the WHO because it is the WHO that coordinates the many health issues world wide. We are a global family and what happens in other countries can and will impact the health of this nation..whether you agree or not that we should discuss issues on HS from a political standpoint, the reality is that withdrawl from the WHO will be bad for the US and ultimately the world.

[Treasur]

I know that some of our US folks here might feel that the US is getting a lot of attention (and judgment) about its response to the coronavirus. It seems to me though that they are far from alone in finding that their politicians and political system has not worked as well as we might all have wished. I guess this kind of crisis highlights the inherent character of those in power and the weaknesses of our existing systems.

Here in the UK, the NHS has many things about it for which we feel grateful. But we have not been particularly competent in dealing with the practicalities of the crisis and people have lost confidence in a government system that communicates poorly and seems to be looking for political scapegoats. And some priorities that seem odd and last minute announcements that seem not to be well thought through before announcement. With a compassionate eye, one can accept that all of us - including politicians - are dealing with a set of complex and novel challenges and that there are many areas of uncertainty. But sometimes one just has that feeling that the world looks a bit different if you are sitting inside a political bunker than it does outside in the real world. As an example.....the NHS went through two significant bouts of large scale organisational restructuring in 2002 and 2012. Both were expensive, long drawn out and created long periods of confusion about control and accountability. Both had large elements of cutting large bits into smaller bodies and creating various versions of an internal 'market' and the use of 3rd party providers outside the NHS. It is not a primary sector of expertise for me when I was a consultant working with leadership teams, but on the few occasions I did I saw a system that, despite the best efforts of many good people, had been thrown into a world with very unclear boundaries and relationships between disparate parts. A process of being 'given' a structure that took a few years for humans to work out how to make it work that brought a tremendous amount of stress to those working in it.....

And now apparently Mr Johnson has decided according to the latest news that NOW is a good time to reorganise the NHS again......https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/10/what-might-boris-johnson-restructing-plan-mean-for-the-nhs

All I could do was shake my head in disbelief.....
Do I think that this crisis is also a way to reimagine how bits of our societies and systems might work differently? Yes. Do I think that this crisis may have shown us weaknesses or highlighted new priorities? Yes
Do I think that - when we are still navigating a crisis with a barely functioning economy and exhausted NHS staff who have pulled miracle rabbits out of hats for the last few months and without an efficient test/trace system or time to have set up a 'new normal' way of wider health and social care operating in the absence of a vaccine - NOW is the time to unleash a huge restructuring process run by a government that has not yet shown that it is operationally and logistically very competent? Oh my goodness, no. Even if the goals of it were clear and worthwhile, this kind of restructuring is messy, complicated and takes a lot of organisational energy.  It is depressing to even think what a hash could be created or how much it might distract energy from the realities that need to be dealt with yet. And we have not withdrawn from WHO, true enough, but we have withdrawn from EU bodies linked to vaccination issues bc of a still pretty unclear Brexit departure at the end of the year....a tow-headed politician who withers on about going to the pub or blames care homes or spends millions on tracing apps that everyone knows don't work starts to look rather out of touch with the reality of life for his voters

Looking from the outside, it seems to me that we are all judging our politicians and systems of collective governance with a different eye than we did before this crisis. I have no idea at all where that will take us in any of our countries.....but I'm pretty clear that no one country takes the single prize for incompetence. Mr Trump is noisy and the US is a significant global player historically, that's true, but all of us are likely to be dealing with changes in how we see ourselves as countries, societies and communities....and the extent to which our political systems seem fit for new purpose or not.

Trust seems to me to be a newly important thing.
The absence of trust in our collective bodies....government, healthcare, corporate entities...makes it more difficult to operate collectively doesn't it? And every time we feel gaslit by what they say or do, a little bit more of that trust is chipped away.

And, even if we had the perfect vaccine, any programme of vaccination would have to do much better than the average current percentage take up of say annual flu vaccines in order to achieve its minimum collective immunity goal. Will people trust either the politicians or experts sufficiently to be vaccinated if that becomes a possibility? Idk. Finding sources of information that each of us feels we can trust is an important bit of the process for all of us isn't it? And some of the behaviour we see in our fellow citizens seems to me to be part of that unfolding process of how we all choose to respond when things are not so clear or when we don't have the kind of feeling of control or certainty that as humans we crave. Jmo.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I have no desire to denigrate my own gender but here are a few interesting articles related to Treasur's post.

Countries with female leaders suffer six times fewer COVID-19 deaths
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-countries-female-leaders-covid-deaths.html

Why Are Women-Led Nations Doing Better With Covid-19?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/world/coronavirus-women-leaders.html

What Do Countries With The Best Coronavirus Responses Have In Common? Women Leaders
https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2020/04/13/what-do-countries-with-the-best-coronavirus-reponses-have-in-common-women-leaders/#70be46133dec

Are women leaders better at fighting coronavirus? It’s complicated.
https://www.vox.com/2020/5/21/21263766/coronavirus-women-leaders-germany-new-zealand-taiwan-merkel

[xyzcf]

Dr Abdu Sharkway is a physician in Toronto that is down to earth and very specific about some ways to keep yourself safe. Here was a list he posted of ways to be able to entertain outdoors and some things to follow which I found very helpful.


Dr. Abdu Sharkawy
2 hrs
Covid-19 Summer Series (Segment #1)
BBQ Season: Grilling and Chilling

Want to enjoy summer with your friends and family with some great food and conversation? Me too. Here are my “Grill master Tips” for enjoying some eats and greets.

1. Hand Hygiene. Hand sanitizer before and after food prep and eating for all. Duh. Don’t forget that it should be at least 60% alcohol-based to effectively kill most viruses and bacteria. Baby wipes and other wipes are not reliable for this purpose and should be avoided. Soap and water is best but requires guests entering your home which should not be encouraged. Lysol wipes are best reserved for disinfecting surfaces and are not healthy for your skin.

2. Distancing. Outdoor transmission of Covid-19 is rare but not non-existent. Keep your chairs 6 feet apart if possible and avoid sitting next to one another on tables. Picnic blankets or mats on your lawn or similar space are options as well to allow more room and comfort for everyone. You do NOT need a mask outdoors if you are seated at a distance.

3. Food preparation. Too many cooks spoil the soup, right? Well, too many hands on the grill means too many bugs to kill! One person should be designated as lead cook/chef. If you have a more elaborate menu and need help, the chefs/kitchen staff should be limited to members of your own household at the very least. In my home, I am the Grill master and as the resident lead “germaphobe”, this bodes well for my guests!

4. Serving. Bugs love the buffet more than you do! Like food prep, serving should be done by one designated person only. No buffet or family style serving arrangements please. Pre-served meals is another option. Think of it as hospitality Covid-19 style ; ) Everyone should maintain their own utensils and should have pre-placed napkins, wipes available to them at their seating areas.

5. Beverages. If you have a pitcher of your favorite brew or mix, one person does the serving (is there an echo in here?). Reusable cups or beverage containers should be labeled with names or somehow marked to distinguish as their own.

6. Bathrooms. It’s awkward to tell your guests they can’t use your washroom, especially if you are the one who filled them up with food and drink like it was Mardi Gras. But... you don’t want to encourage it freely and allow possible indoor exposures if avoidable. If not, ensure kids are accompanied with an adult and that the washroom is wiped down (sink and toilet) between uses.

Enjoy the grill! Coming up next...Parks, Playgrounds and Playdates.
Stay informed. Stay safe and stay healthy everyone!

#GrillNChill #CoVidSummerSeries #CoVidNotIncluded

[marvin4242]

A summary of where things stands with various treatments and drugs as the evidence and data points to today. Good information based on hard science. Rated on a scale of from strong evidence to pseudoscience/fraud.

Hydroxychloroquine is in the "not promising" group, one up from Ineffective and harmful.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-drugs-treatments.html

[terra]

Anecdotally, this latest idea that USA hospitals should bypass the known channels and report COVID-19 data directly to the Trump administration rather than to the CDC...

Politics aside, this causes disruption in the hospital environment just as it would for any other organization. In the science environments, we have to adapt protocols, trainings, and work procedures with associated documentation, before we are authorized to perform the new or changed task(s). And the organization or company has to report to whatever governing or standardization body that we have met the new standard. That means every worker is required to take time out of existing work tasks to sit through and complete the required training.

Everyone dislikes this, even if we understand why a particular change and retraining is now needed. Which, often it’s *not* understood exactly why. Global standards eventually make sense. Arbitrary ones usually don’t. So there’s dissent, and if there’s too much change or the wrong kind of change, people burn out and then you have employee exodus or loss of workers who hold a ton of key tribal knowledge and expertise. Then the work falls to employees who remain, or new ones are hired...and have to be trained. Which takes time. And often a period of handholding or organizational mentorship, which, in the sciences and medical fields, we don’t really have time for that, even in ordinary times, which these are definitely not.

I say “we” but I don’t speak for everyone of course. Just my observation over the course of decades and many environments with more people than I can count.

I’m not actually working right now, in those fields or any others. Partly because these environments are so pressured at this time, that hiring has come to a dead stop or is very, very, very particular. Because right now is just astounding.

I hope everyone here is doing well. We have I think months to go before the health crisis begins to resolve. I find most of the news pretty unsettling, not just because it is overall pretty scary, but because the governmental actions and/or reasoning have direct impact on my ability to find work in the environments that made so much of my career.

Weird times, for sure. Just continue doing what is smart, what your doctors would advise, and let’s get through all this.

[OffRoad]

A summary of where things stands with various treatments and drugs as the evidence and data points to today. Good information based on hard science. Rated on a scale of from strong evidence to pseudoscience/fraud.

Hydroxychloroquine is in the "not promising" group, one up from Ineffective and harmful.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-drugs-treatments.html

Very informative. This article needs to be read very carefully, though.
"Putting out Friendly Fire"
STRONG EVIDENCE
"Dexamethasone
This cheap and widely available steroid blunts many types of immune responses. Doctors have long used it to treat allergies, asthma and inflammation. In June, it became the first drug shown to reduce Covid-19 deaths. That study of more than 6,000 people, which has not yet been published in a scientific journal, found that dexamethasone reduced deaths by one-third in patients on ventilators, and by one-fifth in patients on oxygen. It may be less likely to help — and may even harm — patients who are at an earlier stage of Covid-19 infections, however.

BBM. The study has not been peer reviewed AND may even cause harm in some cases. While it might end up the be all, end all study for this particular drug for "Putting out Friendly Fire" for SOME cases of Covid, it might not for others. (How this equates to Strong Evidence for ALL of Covid cases/deaths, I'm not quite sure, I need to look further). This is where reading skills come in handy.