[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi Thunder,

She's getting more physical assets because:

1) I have zero need for rural stuff and tools in the city (but she will if staying).

2) kids will be spending most of school season at Home.mk.1 -which is why tons of sporting etc stuff (especially for winter) is more needed at Home.mk.1 too.... The summer stuff: swimming suites/pants.

3) she will be having about 4x more space.
(And since she's been hoarding for 20yrs, there is way more stuff than my flat could fit into).

So this creates an imbalance...the real value of rural homes is not so much in the walls but what's within the house (houses can be bought at <100k; Vs  500k items that have paid/could be resold at least buck a piece)

But while writing the above, I understood the above are true only if she gets the mortgage...

If she doesn't get one...sigh...   

So it's back to waiting game.

Alvin.

[Thunder]

Yes Alvin, I suppose that's true.  The mortgage would have to be settled first before anything.

When I moved out, of course I couldn't take half of a 3 bedroom house with me.  My lawyer had me make a list of our assets and then put a price on them.  Like how much would we realistically get (not what we thought they were worth) if we sold those items at a garage sale.  It took awhile to gather.
(personal items were not included, like clothing, or in your case kids toys or items)  Unless she has a mink coat.  ha ha

Then we adding all our assets the dollar amount was split 50/50.

Because I moved out he had to give me half of that amount from his retirement savings, or the amount would come out of any savings you two have.
There was no way he could not have given me cash for everything, but it had to come out of somewhere.

So we never had to actually sell anything.  But I received half of the dollar amount of the assets.  Which you should get too, if she stays in the house.
So much easier then hassling with selling things when one of us could use them.

Well hopefully she can get the mortgage refinanced.  It would make things easier.
I would really suggest making a list of assets, if you haven't already done so.
Then garage sale price them to get an accurate amount to be divided.

This could be attached to your D paperwork, in case a judge would need to see it.

Good luck.  It's a long process.   

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks Thunder.... I'm already way deep in that process...

I really hope there's no need to go into yard sales etc as I do think it would be waste of time/resources for all. But STBXW does not follow logic now...


Journaling.... So STBXW texted me that one of G12 cousins (of same age) is at FIL/MIL and was asking G12 to spend rest of the week there...I just wrote "no thanks as we have plans (we do), but the cousin is welcomed to stay with us if she wants to, and join the plans too."

STBXW tried again "but they could spend private time the two of them, that's the idea".... I just wrote "private time can be found here too. S5 spends days with me, or playing either alone or with with BFF; G12 does her things, and G16 her stuff. And occasionally we do things together. And there is extra bed available too. And you know I'll cook, provide ice-cream etc. And I'll make sure she gets safe here if she takes the bus."

No response. Of any kind....and I thought I was being very generous... So sad.

Alvin.

[Standing Strong]

Sounds like she wanted to be the "Cool mom".

Well, she can do that with HER time. Something she'll have to learn is that she can't spend your time anymore, and that will be a bitter pill for her.

Consequences. Unforeseen.

-SS

[AlvinTheMaker]

Consequences. Unforeseen.

Oh, you just made me drop the chair in laughter.... 

But I think this is a lot like what I wrote in gMan's thread...   one of those "red flags" I missed out about relationship going wrong was lack of consequences.  Both ways I think.

She did not put any boundaries on me.  And it was lack of consequences.

And  I just gave, gave, gave - but did not ask anything in return (because you do things for love).   It is pretty fireproof way to kill some of the tension/spark etc because bargaining and trade is one of those things that keeps relationship lively....   and I can only blame myself for teaching her the "bad habbit" of "no consequences" on that area (in other areas of us living, I did have both boundaries and consequences, which possible highlighted the conflict and contradiction in her)....  Maybe quoting the whole post I wrote to gMan is good thing, as it reflects a lot of things going on my head....

Hi gMan,

I really enjoy reading your latest adventures.    It touches something within, maybe because dating is one of those things that I've been processing/thinking  internally for some time. What seemed like valid approach some 20+yrs back simply does not apply anymore.  I'm a different person, I know more, adult women are different etc.  The whole game is just different, and if I would try to enter the game like 20yr old I'd be bruised and hurt in no time. 

So here's my 5cents worth of dating advice you never asked (and possible coming from source who doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows, LOL.  But you'll be the judge of that)....   

At airsoft a lady immediately approached the desk and asked me if she knew me. She thought she knew me from highschool and asked me my name and so on. ...I think she just found something fun for her and her son to do for the day and figured she'd flirt a bit too. I called it and no I don't want any of it.

Many gals flirt just for fun....  Which  makes women so hard to understand for us guys - because most of us men don't flirt for fun (heck, most of us don't flirt at all, LOL).

But maybe flipping the attitude helps.... if you are always assuming women to be genuinely interested everytime they flirt, you are having an expectation.  And if there's one thing everyone should have learned here, it is that expectations about other people are bad.  You miss the ball at least half the time.

So what if you just reverse the whole thing -  assume  they might be "flirting for fun"  or "flirting for real" or "you are just misreading the whole thing",  and let it build up from there.  Either way, flirting is just fllirting, nothing more than pre-check to see if you are the kind of person to get to know on any level.

It's become obvious to me, how much people just use me. How the yoda thing fits into it is, xw is just trying to keep OM happy because he's got money and she wants it. That made me sad a bit, because I know she probably doesn't treat him like she did me. She treated me the way she did because I was nice and she knew I"d put up with it. 

Big part of relationships is based on mutual win-win.  You do/give something, she does/gives something in return.  It's the trade that does make relationships not just work but "emotionally fun".  It creates tension, spark, the pull. 

Say she asks you look at her car.. in return you ask for her to bake your favorite cupcakes you love or something of equal investment
She asks if you can pass her the ketchup, and you ask her to sing a bit of "ketchup song" (even small thing go value for value)
etc etc.  turn those occasions into flirty banter or whatever...     

If looking back....   I sure as hell can say that this is one "red flag" I missed out.   On some point the trade stopped. I just gave, gave, gave but received nothing in return.  I likely should have realized to start "dating" STBXW again but like so many persons in love (and stuck in rut) I likely just kept on giving and occasionally begrunted when she no longer played the game...  instead I should have gone back to "dating mode".  Instead of giving things, make her jump some hoola-hoops in fun way (relationships are "hard work" this way)... but lesson learned, not repeating the same mistake again.   Not even with her

 

I also need to learn the "type" of person I'm a good match for and will have the most success with. It's just tough.. getting divorced at 40 and realizing you never had a clue about dating and all of the required social interactions.

Don't feel sorry for yourself.  I think it's the same for all of us in this age group.... I sure as hell can say that just re-thinking what dating was alike, and putting it into current knowledge base and context.... I really did not have a clue about dating apart of knowing precisely what I wanted from a girl.   And STBXW was 10/10 gem back then (then just some $h!te called life happened)....   And it is one of those reasons I am (re-)thinking about the whole dating thing.   Regardless of if I continue to stand or move on into new relationship,  I'm gonna have to learn to date in age appropiate way.   Because it is one of those skills I will need no matter what, and it makes me better - just for myself.   

I think it like this....  in order for me to get the kind of woman I want (or any males I want to become friends with),  I must 
a) know who I am  (so I know what matches me and how to market who I am),   and 
b) know the kind of woman I want  (looks, behaviour, characteristics, anything you'd want from a person you will spend your life with) and 
c) be pretty much the kind of person I want to attract (the opposites attract may be true for hurt people, but I think in healthy relationships it's the other way around - people who are similar enough attract each other.  It's all about aligning to values, beliefs goals,  lifestyle, all things external etc.)

And then when you know what you want from woman, the flirting and dating is basically all about throwing "tests" to see how well that other person matches your wants.  A non-smoker?  It's easy to test just by looking at her for some time, and you'll definitely know by the time you get close...   A non-drinker?  Bit harder, but at least you can eliminate anyone drunk at the moment....  Have yourself a list of the essentials, and work from easiest to check to "harder to check" (as you really don't want to invest too much in time for getting to know person who turns out to be say a smoker).....   Women do "test" us men if we are compatible, the same way us men should "test" woman if they are compatible (but I think a lot of men don't take this as mindfully, omit the tests and  go from relationship to relationship until finding something that feels good enough)....   And how do you know if woman you like is compatible?   By knowing yourself: who you are and what you want.   You can't blame the other person for being who they are, you can only look at yourself from picking a person that was "bad" match (but hey , we all make mistakes and we learn from them- that is what flirting and dating is to large extends, a school to make mistakes so we could find the person that matches us well )

Just my 5 cents worth,

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling a bit....

Have had a busy day.   Emptying the garage. Tons of stuff in there... but I'm on the winning side. Tomorrow it will be all empty and ready to fill it up with stuff I will be taking along.

Did have a lengthy calls with G19 and G20, and also W's former BFF. 

G19.... well, W had not told her a thing ... but she saw D coming and was (as usual) in "life happens"-mood....   what she did not see coming was my beard (hilarous laughter followed by yuck-reaction)....  Anyway, I told her the parenting shifts etc. stuff she needed to know about implications of D. The only thing that raised her eyebrows was when I said that STBXW has got no mortgage yet, and there is a possibility family home might be placed on sale. I just said "I know, she's running on emotions and not thinking this on logic. But even on worst scenario, it is gonna be a lengthy process".... then we chatted about her school,  training, the possibility of her dropping by at Home mk.1 before the move and Home mk.2 once I've settled in.

G20... it was interesting.... she did ask if I told STBXW about her not contacting often enough. I said yes it was discussed as STBXW and I talked about her not contacting G12 and G16 too,  and asked howcome?  She told that instead of nightly group 'good night' message she's receiving individual good night message too.   And she doesn't really know whether or not to respond to it, daily.  She much rather would have call/chat weekly (or more often).... I just said respond as you wish, but give her time....      Then G20 started explaining that STBXW might have some kind of concentration/hyperactivity disorder, because the way she needs to hoard and spread stuff and the way she now behaves.  I said it's all possible, but it could also be just stress or good ole depression as they too make similar behaviour.  But eventually and regardless of name, there's unfortunately nothing we can do except stand aside and be there when and if she needs her family to support.   

STBXW's former BFF... she's volunteering to help with the kids. Now and when they are with STBXW... I also asked her to look after STBXW  if she hits any issues. And even without issues to remain as her friend.  She said she will...   She said she hopes that we could do things amicably because of kids. I told her that's my goal/plan, but rest is up to STBXW... And then we chatted a bit about my work and move.

Other stuff... 

Kids are finally beginning to bomb me with questions about home mk.2... where will they sleep, how long the ride will take etc. very basic stuff.  It's good.   They are beginning to think about it,  now my job is to give them some dreams to make it look like a nice thing.

STBXW has agreed my proposition of mutual no-alimony arrangement.  I think it will be win-win for both of us (and at least I plan to remain committed to funding the kids with whatever they need as long as I have any money)....   And she's axing her pension fund (I suggested that she lets it remain, and instead takes a loan and pays my half from the loan - nope).... and then she agreed a bunch of other financial proposals I made for her.

But yes. This thing is moving onwards. Slowly but surely.

Alvin.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

STBXW has agreed my proposition of mutual no-alimony arrangement.  I think it will be win-win for both of us (and at least I plan to remain committed to funding the kids with whatever they need as long as I have any money)....   And she's axing her pension fund (I suggested that she lets it remain, and instead takes a loan and pays my half from the loan - nope).... and then she agreed a bunch of other financial proposals I made for her.

Does your STBXW have legal representation? The reason why I ask is that a judge will review all the documents and if he/she feels that the arrangement is lopsided in favor of one party over the other-particularly the one he/she assumes has less power, then the agreement will be nullified.

In my situation, my ex got alimony. We agreed to five years at max amount with no modifications. That gave her a fixed amount for five years while I got a time limit. She also got 9.25 years credit of my pension. I kept the house but paid her out half of the equity. She had an attorney and I had one as well even though I negotiated most of the terms prior to retaining an attorney. But I knew I needed one to review the settlement document. The judge mad one modification and signed off on it.

I just don't want you to get your STBXW in too many agreements and have a judge toss it out. Then your STBXW will feel that you are trying to cheat her and then the fight will be on.

((((Hugs))))

Ready

[AlvinTheMaker]

Thanks Ready... 

Does your STBXW have legal representation? The reason why I ask is that a judge will review all the documents and if he/she feels that the arrangement is lopsided in favor of one party over the other-particularly the one he/she assumes has less power, then the agreement will be nullified.

The local alimony system is bit different from US version, and the fate of agreement will be reviewed by authorized third party next moth.  If the authorizing party rejects the agreement, then we can decide to either renogiate the parenting pack (alimony included) or leave it all up to judge. For better or worse, local legislation does not allow "forever" contracts in alimony issues unless both agree  - nor does it allow the other person to start living on alimony unless both agree.  Say  for example if she loses her job or I lose my job,  or I get significant promotion or she gets significant promotion, then the whole alimony contract can be nulled one-sidedly and placed back on the table for review at any time. no questions asked.... But on the other side of scale is the fact that opening alimony contracts opens up also the parenting pact. If left to court, the system usually favors the parent who has got steady job,  and life and who wants the kids (and who kids also want).  So  there is the carrot, and there is the stick.   The better you do in life (and with your kids), the better your chances are in winning the rights to be the "main parent" for your kids (if it ever goes to court) and avoid alimony. But it is a risk as the judge can decide basically anything, on parenting rights as well as on alimony.  Which is why very very very few choose the court route - it is voluntarily giving away all the power... Right now, right here the agreement of no-alimony should be financially fair for both of us,  and work for best of us.   If life changes then the deal is easily opened.



Journaling....    It's always interesting to see how gears in brains of kids begin to move....   

G16 loves math and is good at it, and she's now beginning to do the math on divorce.   The end result has been the question  "how is STBXW going pay all of this?".   Not once, nor twice but thrice did this question pop up today....   The best I have been able to say is "same way as me, by applying a loan from the bank and working hard"....       Eventually came out the question "what if she does not have a job, what if she cannot get the loan"?   Then I explained that if so-and-so happens, the system provides a kind of 'soft spot' to land and I'm also there to take care of them if required.  So there's absolutely no need to panic.

And S5 is talking about Christmas, and bit about the birthdays of two of us....  shall there be a christmas tree (we usually have gotten one from the woods, but likely it will be way more easier to just buy one from the square) or will there be snow for snowmen (it can swing any way, but as we'll be right by the sea the odds are not good).   And we're already discussing what items he'd like to take with me and which ones should be left at Home mk.1.

G12.... not talking much. Apart of horses. As long as there are horses somewhere and in some format, she says she's going to be happy. 

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journaling... I think that today's interaction with STBXW about house brought up one very important piece of understanding about life in general, as well as STBXW's behaviour.  It is that without trust fear is the only possibility.   

She's not trusting me.
And even more so, she's not trusting her own wings.
And it's making her fear,
and that fear is making her do some really bad choices (like fear always does).


On the upside of life... G20 dropped for quick surprise visit. 

Alvin.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Journalling...

Circle of pain is expanding.... My father (in his mid 80s, with Parkinson, LBD etc health issues) is having hard time accepting realities of upcoming divorce.  I know denial and resistance are mandatory parts of the grief process, but still I so much would have wanted to save him from this experience ... I care and look after him, and he cares and looks after for me to best of his abilities. That is what family is all about, and I cannot think of greater privildge and honor (and what I have learned and will learn is a model I try to pass to my kids).

KIds.... questions, questions, questions.... For some I have the answer, for some I don't have the answer. I'm sharing my best knowledge so they could build a somewhat realistic judgement of the situation.  I'm making sure they know there are lots of cool things ahead, but I'm also making sure they know life will be different and in some ways "harder" for all of us.  The reactions are all over the chart - S5 is  being the most optimistic one (I guess he trusts me fully),  G16 is more like "one more year and I can do whatever I want regardless of you two nuts"  (but he is also the one understanding various ups and downs best),   and G12 is struggling with all of this (this is possiby the worst age to go through D).... I'm trying my best (and I pray it is enough).

I did make a video chat/call to STBXW today...

I had to talk about bank issue. We are reworking the family accounts so that kids get more "rights/access" to their own money  However, she had left one option unchecked, and it would have placed serious restriction on how G16 can use her own account.  I just expressed it as lightly as possible "could you please refill the application and check the option z is checked as it is something G16 really needs. Thanks".

Then I talked about division of physical assets and asked some questions.  I told her that I've already put a good deal of stuff in the garage and I'd like to have her opinion of few bigger items I will work next week. All things we have purchased together, or I've gifted her, or kids have made for us/her...Do what you will, take as much you want,  or let's donate them to kids....  She's definitely wiping our marriage (and family history) off the walls.  All she really wants to keep is stuff that she has inherited from her grandmother or that has been gifted to her before the two of us met.  Well, I'm definitely taking everything that has got emotional and practical value to me or kids....   and here's the really fun part. All the stuff that she talks as "worthless".   She would want "us" to donate it to charity. Um, yeah, no thanks.  Some of it - sure, I'd been willing to bin it for years.  But there's plenty of good stuff in the mix....   I think this is part of her plan to try to minimize financial cost/implications of divorce on her side.

Alvin.