[Songanddance]

Sorry you were feeling hurt.’ Is a throwaway statement, almost blaming the victim.  ‘It pains me deeply that I hurt you so much.  I’m so sorry.  Please forgive me’ is meaningful, I’d say.  That came when I least expected — while taking out the garbage and recycling together.

And sometimes that genuine remorseful apology may not come. That recognition of the actions the MLCer took and the hurt they inflicted.  My H still hasn't said this and he still thinks my S should get over his feelings of animosity towards him.  H has acknowledged frequently that I have been hurt and he has said that he is truly sorry "that I was hurt" but he has never taken the total responsibility for it neither has he understood what that really means .   It's been 9 years now and we are separated. I doubt highly I will ever hear the words of accountability and for me it really is important that he does this.  Really important regardless of what happens to us. 

Each situation is different. And each LBS has her own boundaries.

[Treasur]

I agree with Song that some of us may never get that. Whether we do or we don’t, and how we choose to live with that, does not I think invalidate our wish to hear it.

At a simple level perhaps, if we don’t hear someone say a) what I did was wrong and b) I understand that I really hurt you and I wish that I hadn’t, I guess it might be quite hard to not feel some doubt that they could do something similar again if they think what they did was ok or take no responsibility for their actions and effects or if it does not seem to hurt them that they hurt us.

[Yo]

Thanks for your posts Acorn, Songanddance, Treasure! ❤️

I noticed that I was expecting an apology and a new relationship with H, but after what he has done, the relationship that we had before the crisis was not enough, I needed more, maybe because before, I was not hurt and now after the ow, the monster episodes, and all the ugly stuff, I found myself wanting more than what H was before MLC.
Is this because I have changed? because I don’t love him like I use to? or because I am not over it yet?

I was thinking about it because last week we were talking about a situation that I had at work and he just told me that I was being a crybaby, that I should solve it or let it go (he said in a nice way) I thought that he was harsh but then I remembered that he use to be like that! Always more practical than emotional, and I was expecting him to pat me on the back, but that is not him!!! The worst thing is that I used to love that about him!
Maybe is just a very simple and not important event but I realized that sometimes I still have expectations and that I don’t know where I am but not because of him but me

[Songanddance]

I was thinking about it because last week we were talking about a situation that I had at work and he just told me that I was being a crybaby, that I should solve it or let it go (he said in a nice way) I thought that he was harsh but then I remembered that he use to be like that!

If my H had said that "I was being a crybaby" to me at any point- MLC or not - I would have asked him to "get lost".   

Your H has a point - solve it or let it go - but there are ways and means of speaking that can say the same but they allow you to arrive at that conclusion. 

If he always used to be this way - it is likely he is going to continue.  He doesn't seem to have an empathetic approach to your concerns.

My H was sometimes like that but when I faced a massive crisis at work and he was well and truly in MLC with OW - he was surprisingly supportive. He would throw away comments such as " Stand up to her (my boss) tell her she's wrong" but on the whole he never said " let it go" because he understood how important it was to me.  He also supported my resigning a year later even though he realised that he would have to pay all of the bills including the mortgage and that was a shock to him.

It comes down to what you want out of a relationship Yo. 
Do you want your H and a restored marriage regardless of how much he hasn't changed or you?
Or do you want something different for yourself?
Do you want a relationship where your feelings are validated not necessarily sympathised with but a more empathetic and reasonable response to your fears/doubts/worries?

Is this because I have changed?   We all change - whether we like it or not because I don’t love him like I use to? who knows what love really is except for what we want it to be or because I am not over it yet?  I don't think we ever "get over" the breakdown of our marriages. We move forward, we grow and we understand much more but we let it go rather than"getting over it " Getting over it is a bit like losing a match - "get over it there'll always been another chance to win."  You can't really say that about a marriage.

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[Treasur]

Is this because I have changed? because I don’t love him like I use to? or because I am not over it yet

Perhaps a bit of all three?

I agree with what Song wrote above. I don’t see how this kind of experience cannot change us in some ways, or at least change our lens. And that includes seeing our spouse differently. Not necessarily good or bad, or less or more, but differently.
I saw a quote recently that said Acceptance is about being where you are and starting from there.
But perhaps it takes a little while to work out where you actually are.....

How did you respond when your xh called you a cry baby, Yo?

[Acorn]

Dear Yo,

We are all aware of the fact that one cannot direct or should try to manage(manipulate) another person’s feelings, thoughts, or verbal output.  However, we have total control over how we respond to them.  (These are the first things we learn as LBS if we didn’t fully grasp this simple life truth before BD.)

If I were in your shoes, I may consider the following.  Always just a ‘sample of one’ view!

If I was hurt by my H’s comments, I can:

- Fire back with an insult
- Proceed to lay out all his mistakes/faults and teach him how to speak politely
- Simmer quietly in anger and resentment

None of the above (plus numerous more negative ways of communicating with others) would be a mature or beneficial way of managing my relationship with any human being, let alone my husband. 

Or

- Read the situation and determine if the ‘cry baby’ and ‘how to manage your responses’ comments were yet another example of Mansplaining, which is a part of H’s general misogynistic and arrogant attitude that permeated throughout our relationship. (If the answer is ‘yes,’ I would take that as a very loud wake up call and it will be up to me how to respond to that kind of attitude and relational dynamics.)

- Use the rule of 3, pick the right moment, and then express calmly and politely how I felt about his comments.  It’s up to him how he responds to that, going forward. 

- If H had been loving, respectful, consdierate and courteous toward me but made a mistake, forgive and move on.  God knows I have made lots of mistakes, too…

Just my 2 cents’ worth.

Hugs! 

[Yo]

I think I didn’t translate correctly, actually I don’t really know what words to use but I’ll try to explain without justify his behavior…
It was more like “don’t complain when you can solve it” I wrote in the last post that it was something that I use to love about him, the part when he don’t let me surrender,
but now I take some things that come from him differently, like if I just want him to be very sweet without the adults part when you have to place your feet on the ground
and that is why I had those questions in my mind that, by the way, you guys answered  great to me! Thanks!

I hope to be being objective, I am surely going to analyze it

[Songanddance]

It was more like “don’t complain when you can solve it” I wrote in the last post that it was something that I use to love about him, the part when he don’t let me surrender,

That creates a different perspective. However, were your feelings actually validated in that conversation?  Saying the word "Don't" makes things worse usually. 

We might wholly appreciate not being allowed to "surrender" in a situation where we could actually be part of the solution. My take on it though is this -the use of the word "cry baby".  My H now understands that I need to vent when something upsets me - and so he now lets me do that. 
Sometimes we just need to have a good cry - crying is healthy (unless done to excess as we all know post BD). THereafter the conversations we have with those nearest to us are shaped by how we feel after having our feelings validated.

This is what is meant by growth as a whole.  The LBSer will infinitely grow faster than the MLCer.  The MLCer may not grow at all - they may just simply adapt more appropriately. 

RCR is quite clear that MLCers who once through the majority of the crisis - will return to much of their pre crisis attitudes and behaviours. MLC does not make a brand new person emerge. Flashes of the old person will constantly appear.  For example.  You say that your H always used to give you comments or phrases such as "Don't complain if you can solve it"  and seems to be doing so again.  That is fine - however it's how it's said that differs. 

If he says something like this again - as Acorn suggests - apply the rule of 3 and then consider how you would respond to that.  Might it be " Thank you for your words . I do have a solution and I was venting my frustration. I would have appreciated you understanding that"
Or might it be " Has it ever occurred to you that I might just want to vent my feelings and frustrations? "

or might it be " I hear you H - and I understand where you are coming from. For now though - I'm going to vent and stew for a little while because it helps me process the solution"

Let me give you a crude example. 34 yrs ago,  I was in the process of giving birth to my oldest D and H who was generally v supportive throughout said as I was beginning to really struggle with the last set of contractions "  Ok S&D focus on something nice and tell yourself the pain is just in your thoughts.  the pain is just in your head and thoughts"
The midwife shook her head laughingly and my response was " I can tell you right now H that the pain is most definitely not in my head and if you like to swop with me you are more than welcome" 
H never lived that comment down.........  But this is my point.  He hated to see me in physical pain and tried to be helpful - it was just not the right thing to say at that time.

[Yo]

Thank you S&D! I pictured you all calm in the middle of the contractions saying a very eloquent phrase to your  H! 😂😅
But you are right! I’ll apply what Acorn suggested, the rule of 3, and will continue analyzing if this is what I want.

[Yo]

Hola!
I just jumped in to the forum after a year! Happy to be here and happier because I am here for a different reason than I was 5 years ago.
I used to be here looking for advice, someone to tell me what to do or something to make me feel better. I always found love, and I always felt that I was not alone, thank you for that!

Today I am here to let you know that anything can be possible and that everything can be alright even if things are not going to be as you think, wish or plan. Just keep working on you and don’t let the process of your spouse distract you, you can’t do anything about it!

We are happy and blessed, working in our relationship with love, very differently than I would thought because we don’t live together and honestly is something that was not in my mind because of the old style traditions that I have as a Latin woman, but it turned the right way for us so far!
For me to keep growing without the distraction of his process and for him to keep working on it.  This way we have been capable to start all over again but in a wiser version because of the experience.

Trust the timing of your life, and stop trying to calm the storm, CALM YOURSELF! The storm will pass! ❤️