[MadLuv]

Thanks AL- I agree with men relying on the wife, but he has sent wrapped gifts until this year that he picked out, but this year unwrapped and cheap. The fact his wife's daughters got the name brand and d33 got knock offs I know is not because he thinks D31 will accept. What is crazy is now she said that she got a box for her bday also and when she opened the box if was a VS box and she thought, hmmmm what did he get me. She opened it and it waa a very ugly sweater she would never wear and the very mushy card unsigned. She said, it was very apparent that his wife sent the gift.

To me he just seems to be running away farther and the fact the OWife is sooooo materialistic he just cant keep up with it all. There is definitely changes happening with him. Not sure what it all means. His OWife D27 should have or will be having her baby any day. Past the due date now. D33 who has struggled with having her second child admitted to be taken a back to hear that. A little gut punch that he will be spending time with a grandchild that is not his vs his own and that a gal doing drugs gets easily pregnant vs her. Seemed unfair once again for good things to keep happening for those who have no regard for others.  I reminded her that what you see isn’t what really is. I don’t believe that they have a magical life. Just shallow people that dont know how real love works.

[KayDee]

I think there may be slipper confusion  did OWife's daughters get the real mccoy and your D got the duds? If that's the case, I would suspect OWife as the sender because it has a slight Machiavellian edge to it. Although, I may be over-estimating other people's skills If you xH sent it, I diagnosis laziness with a comorbidity of self-centred lack of empathy.

I suppose knowing about these gifts is not helpful to your recovery, as you say. You've managed to create a nice, calm island, where you stop your xH's drama washing up on your shores. And I imagine you'd prefer to have positive times with your D, not infected by your xH's antics. Obviously your D feels the need to vent, but it is still triggering for you - how does this mar your time together do you think?

[UrsaMajor]

MLC'ers ideas of Gift Giving rate about a +9 on the WTF factor.....

There is an LBS here whose 16-year-old daughter was getting clothes in the style (AND SIZE!!!  ) for a 10-year-old (the year that her MLC'er went BSC). There is another one whose kid got some sort of pink plastic animal head if I recall correctly that lived in the back of the kids' closet until they finally binned it.....  My MLC'er would buy the kids clothes that were 2-3 sizes too big (because that is what she herself wore) so they were often tripping over pants that were too long, needing belts to hold them up or pulling their sleeves back so they could use heir hands.... and she wondered why they had pain in their feet..... well, when the shoes are 3 sizes too big, they don't fit right and cause problems.... 

[MadLuv]

Kaydee- 😂😂 it’s slipper gate!!  Yes, our daughter was sent the duds and her daughters got the real mccoy.  It is a little annoying having to have that convo as like you said, I removed myself from all that and I don’t care to be dragged back in, but I also know the pain of rejection and  I am trying to suck it up and also get off the subject as quickly as possible.  My kids pain in all of this is definitely  and issue for me. I just never bring him up, but try to deal with when he does come up as quickly as possible.

Ursa- man, Sad and funny. If that’s possible 🤪  I know nothing should be surprising, yet  somehow things still amaze me.

So, I really dont know.  He has spent money like water and something is changing. He saved a mere $80 on this switch up. If it was pure laziness he would have bought all 3 real mccoys and shipped them to 2 different addresses. So, he went on one website to buy the two real ones and ship them and then on a different one to buy the fakes. That was extra effort. There is a reason and the only reason  I can deduct is that he is coming to some realization now after 100’s of thousands spent  in under 3 years, that he can’t keep it up and he is annoyed by it.  However , he is an avoidant and he can’t tell her the spending is out of control. Also, his mask is dropped with our kids. Her and her kids think he is a multimillionaire hero, so that is playing into this.  His weak persona needs their gratitude which I assume now has become expected and he isnt getting the amazement of his efforts anymore.  OWife got a 7k diamond ring.  IDK where the money is coming from, maybe he is dipping into that 401k.

He definitely knows our D33 has always worn the name brand.  It almost feel like he intended to trigger her, but I honestly don't know if it is just trying to save some money or a silent jab at this point, because I have no idea what is happening with him anymore, but if I was a betting gal he did it to cut costs and he has some realization now. 2 expensive car loans and 2 mortgages and my alimony. He has to be struggling. She and her D’s are living the life. I don’t think he is.

D33 also told me that S31 told his Dad at some point that he never intended to ever spend time with OWife and her family with him. D33 said, you see how that turned out. S31 was cut out . D33 said, I went out to eat and drove and spent a weekend with them and I still got cut out.  It’s all very sad. You can fall put of love and remarry, but how do you fall out of love with your own kids. I just think if you do that it is something that was never there on a deep level.

Either way….what a sad thing that if you have to cut costs it is with your child and not someone elses. I think he handled the slippers and I think she handled D33 bday gift and if I was a guessing gal again, I think the sweater was one she or one of her daughters didn’t like and she threw it in a  reused box and hurriedly sent it on. The mushy unsigned card was confirmation that OWife sent that no doubt. To me that is just insane in itself. Unsigned but mushy to a Daughter he hasn’t seen in over 2 years?

[beyondblessed]

ML, while I feel for your kids, your xh is clearly not all there.  At this point, I lean towards him swimming for his life, just trying to stay afloat, but that can't go on forever, either, so he's going be having some difficult choices to be making eventually.  He definitely does not look like a man who's living it up.  He looks like he knows he knows he's really screwed up, but doesn't know how to fix it or he knows how to fix it, but he doesn't have the courage to do so.  I think most of them would try to make amends, if they weren't such cowards.  It takes great strength to admit you've been less than, and "less than" is a grave understatement when it comes to the MLC'ERS choices and behavior.

Still, it does put you in awkward position, even if you are just listening to your kids vent about his crazy.  There are no easy answers.

[KayDee]

I think most of them would try to make amends, if they weren't such cowards.  It takes great strength to admit you've been less than, and "less than" is a grave understatement when it comes to the MLC'ERS choices and behavior.

So true. It feels like an in-built fail button somehow. I think, for many, they were people-pleasers extraordinaire, because they deeply fear anger. They also fear rejection by equal measure. They then avoid anger because it could cause a rupture (thus rejection). For people who have these fears, it's a huge thing to address. It's deeply ingrained from childhood. Then it takes strength to confront the anger they have made other's feel, which also means putting themselves at risk of rejection. It is possible I suppose, but while the person is in crisis, they don't have that strength, and the double bind is, they keep adding to their collection of despicable acts. They keep making their loved ones angry. They keep hurting people. They know this, not so deep down, that's why they keep burying and running.

[Reinventing]

If that's the case, I would suspect OWife as the sender because it has a slight Machiavellian edge to it. Although, I may be over-estimating other people's skills

I don't think we have the ability to imagine the depth of OW's Machiavellian skills

One of the things that rankles me is when OWs "sympathize" with the MLCer about how hard this is for the LBS to go through. That makes me gag.

Although I will say, the MLCer is the one who breaks their vows with the LBS. Not OW. However, OW's competitiveness can make it a lot worse for the LBS and the children.

[MadLuv]

BB- I agree with you. He  has been an extreme case and he just keeps digging in further. He now has pretty much replaced every aspect of his old life. He stated” there is nothing left of my life” funny how he seems suprised. It’s exactly what he thought he wanted 🤪  How they walkway from their kids and grandkids still baggles my mind, but he can’t face anyone that he once knew.

Kaydee- they are the ultimate victims. My first time I really grasped that was when he was talking to me on the phone about ending his life and then I get a notification from our grocery store with a receipt for the candy and snacks he literally bought while taking to me about being on deaths door. They will do anything to deflect or get us to back off or not be accountable.

Reinventing- The OW. I can’t even.  My  XH OWife is  definitely not making him a better man. She is just allowing him to do whatever as long as he buys he everything and everything.  She has a saying on her FB  a friend sent me. It says something like “ I know you look at me and wonder if I am better than you, yea b!tc# I am”  who posts this as their saying? My XH has no idea who he is married to. He is not on social media, but she has no ifea who she is married to either. Right now, they are perfect for each other. If I am being honest. 

[KayDee]

  She has a saying on her FB  a friend sent me. It says something like “ I know you look at me and wonder if I am better than you, yea b!tc# I am”

Ah, yes, but at what? 

[MadLuv]

Absolutely nothing. 🤣 The arrogance of the AP’s thinking they won a prize amazes me. It took me a while to finally see that I was in some magical thinking that my XH was still a great guy. I still thought someone that was abusing me could  somehow still  bring me happiness . He isn’t a good guy right now and that took a while to sink in. That was the beginning of my big leap in healing.  It was also my saddest moment. I never wanted to view him the way I do now. I don’t think he wants to be this way. I feel bad for him. He destroyed his life and tried to destroy everyone who loved him. That is a heavy load to carry.