[Treasur]

PS a very practical thing you can do which might help is to start counting your blessings. Every day, write three things for which you feel grateful. If you pray, don’t pray FOR things to be given but give thanks for what you already have.  Bc when we feel swamped by the bad stuff, by the darkness, when the world feels incomprehensibly awful, it keeps our eye focused on the light in the dark, on what we have rather than what we have lost. Someone suggested this to me in my darkest days, and my first attempts were tiny…a good cup of coffee, a daffodil in early spring  ….but with time I noticed that it changed my focus and how I chatted with God 

[AlvinTheMaker]

Dear IChooseFaith,

There is a proverb "your life is a reflection of your thoughts". What this means is that if you walk to dark alley and notice a dog, for one person the dog is a frightening experience, for some other it is worlds cutest thing. Your are now in this situation. What you, your friends, and your wife see - the view is different for all based on their own thoughts and history.

You are entitled to believe she is dropping breadcrumbs. And you are entitled to cherish the fact that you feel your love story was unique. But you should also take into account your beliefs are just your beliefs, and trying to force them onto others may and will trigger them. What good does it do to you?

Possibly the biggest of all beliefs is love. Like all beliefs, love too is a choice. You must have read on some point of your life "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours. If not, it was never meant to be.".... Let her go, don't clinge or persuade, but also do not do the work for her. If she comes back some day, then smile. If not, then you still have loved.

The goal is not to fix your marriage now. It is to get you to a point where you can start healing from pain of giving up, and becoming best of you for anything life has in store for you.

Alvin
.

[Ichoosefaith]

Has anyone in here successfully saved their marriage?

I appreciate everyone’s words but I do notice everyone has moved on or is still currently in it.

I was hoping someone who came out the other side reconciled would maybe have some words of wisdom. But those folks probably don’t frequent this site anymore.

[zartheit]

There are people that "saved" their marriage. It is pretty rare.

I want to ask you: what do you hope to get from their wisdom? What is the form of an answer you are anticipating? What would that answer enable in your life? What next steps will you take once that information is in your hand?

I also want to say that I can really feel your panic coming through and I'm sorry. I was there quite recently and it is not somewhere I ever want to return to. For my own case, I didn't want to "let go" of her. She was already gone. I was clinging to air. Telling her I want to fight for us just meant that I was ignoring what she was saying, steamrolling her own desires for my own. Sure, I STILL don't understand why she would desire what she does, or how she can proceed in the ways that she has, but my understanding does not supersede respect for another human being's autonomy, as hard as that was to face.

[xyzcf]

Has anyone in here successfully saved their marriage?

Some marriages have been rebuilt after MLC. Not because anyone was able to successfully "save" their marriage...no, nothing we do, nothing anyone does "fixes" this. MLC is not about us and not about our marriages.

Sometimes, the MLCer does come through their crisis and wish to return. Often the LBSer is long gone by then. Some MLCers never seem to make any attempts to return. I have not seen any kind of a pattern that would indicate who returns and who doesn't. Each story is very different.

Here is a link to some reconciliation stories

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1872.0

If you click on the purple or light purple icons across the top of the page,under "Filter topics based on prefix"  it will bring you to posts from several people who have reconciled.

There are more but their stories are filed away in the archives.

Yes, I know of couples who have reconciled but they do not post anymore.

I know you probably all felt this way but me and her are a once in a lifetime love.

We had no clue. The "surprise" of being told our marriage is over without any rationale and their change in personality is truly how I see the "crisis" and it is very hard to comprehend.

Have you read RCR's articles? They will give you a good foundation of what MLC is. The stories here are all anecdotal as are the reasons for why LBSers stand or move on.

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Advice that is given should only be seen as "suggestions" or sharing of things that happened in one's own situation. We must pick and choose for ourselves what fits and disregard what doesn't.

The beauty of this site is the support that you receive, because seldom do outsiders understand. Continue with your life and find peace in things.

[Ichoosefaith]

I want to ask you: what do you hope to get from their wisdom? What is the form of an answer you are anticipating? What would that answer enable in your life? What next steps will you take once that information is in your hand?.

I hope to get guidance on whether she needs me to fight harder or needs me to back off. When she does things so blatantly aimed at me and getting a reaction from me.

The answer in what worked for them would guide me to what action I need to take. Some articles say in her state she may NEED to see that I will fight for her and her response is to keep testing that and pushing because she needs it but can’t accept it right now as real so she is trying to push to a point where she can say “ see he gave up” “ he didn’t love me enough to fight”.

Others say to allow her to heal and process independently. So I don’t know what to do. I was just a kid when I met her and we have grown up together from a very young age. And it’s impossible to believe that when she said in April “there is no us if you continue drinking” and that a life with me sober and present is what she has always wanted how she could suddenly just not want it after all that time and saying those words.

And how would it feel if I truly got sober and didn’t fight for us?  If I just walked away like I don’t care. What message would that send? 

She’s denying saying she doesn’t even know how to make her list private to others but me and that the people I heard that from must not be her friends on there. And adding the guys “making friends” she said you have no idea where I met these people through work, through her brother , through tinder for all I know. Which I said probably tinder and she flipped the firetruck out and cussed me out and locked herself in a bathroom yelling firetruck off go away. And I told her I know you’re trying to get to me and I get it but when you’re ready to talk and handle it. I love you and I am here. And I’m gonna fight for you

This is my dilemma.

[Nas]

I want to ask you: what do you hope to get from their wisdom? What is the form of an answer you are anticipating? What would that answer enable in your life? What next steps will you take once that information is in your hand?.

I hope to get guidance on whether she needs me to fight harder or needs me to back off. When she does things so blatantly aimed at me and getting a reaction from me.

It's going to be really important for you to step back and see where you're projecting. There's nothing "blatant" about her deleting pictures of you or adding single men to her social media, or anything else she does or says or doesn't do or doesn't say. You believe she's doing it to get a reaction out of you - that's your belief, it's not a concrete fact, and it's likely your hope that she's still considering you as a factor in the things she's doing, even if it's in a negative sense. The truth is, we have NO idea why anyone does or says anything, and NOTHING is ever 100% exactly as it seems even in the best of circumstances. There are parts of other people we just don't know and can't know, no matter how close we are to them. And often what we believe is an indication of what we want to be true. It's not the truth - the truth of why she's doing anything is somewhere inside her brain where you will never see it and she may not even be cognizant of it.

The answer in what worked for them would guide me to what action I need to take. Some articles say in her state she may NEED to see that I will fight for her and her response is to keep testing that and pushing because she needs it but can’t accept it right now as real so she is trying to push to a point where she can say “ see he gave up” “ he didn’t love me enough to fight”.

Both of the above are codependent, mind reading and attempts to believe we have control over another person - both sides of the coin are flawed: the idea of her acting a certain way and expecting you to "read her mind" or "read between the lines" and respond appropriately, and the idea that you should watch her, listen to her and try to interpret things she's not communicating. Any articles that advise you that she needs to see you have any kind of reaction to her are articles you should avoid taking advice from.

Others say to allow her to heal and process independently. So I don’t know what to do. I was just a kid when I met her and we have grown up together from a very young age. And it’s impossible to believe that when she said in April “there is no us if you continue drinking” and that a life with me sober and present is what she has always wanted how she could suddenly just not want it after all that time and saying those words.

I'm so sorry because we've all been in your shoes and know how painful it is. If you are newly sober, that needs to be your focus, for you and your kids. The truth is, anyone can change their mind at any time for any reason, and we can never know why. Focusing on an unanswerable question will only cause you added anxiety. We've all done it, and it takes a concerted effort to stop trying to figure out "what you could have done differently." If you don't have an individual therapist yet, I would strongly suggest you seek one out as an additional support as you go through this and maintain your sobriety.

And how would it feel if I truly got sober and didn’t fight for us?  If I just walked away like I don’t care. What message would that send? 

Again, you're not sending any message. She's going to do what she's going to do, and you will only suffer if you look for hidden meaning in any of it. You don't have to walk away from your marriage, but you do have to continue building a life for yourself and your kids while she's doing whatever she's doing. The kindest thing you can do for yourself is to release the idea that you have any control over the situation. Just like in sobriety, accept that you cannot change this, but you can change how you react to it.

That means no more conversations where you tell her "I know you're trying to get to me." You don't know that, and do you want to know the way to make an MLCer (or anyone, really) turn away from you really fast? Tell them you know what they're thinking or how they feel better than they know themselves. As you've already seen, it makes them good and mad, and doesn't do anything good for the LBS. She's an adult, so infantilizing her with comments about how she doesn't know what she's doing or she's making a mistake or she's going to regret her choices are not going to endear you to her. They're going to make her see you more as a roadblock to what she wants. As for telling her you love her and you're going to fight for her, you have to make your own choices there, but, again, look at the reaction you get when you say it and judge whether it's going to help you to keep saying it.

This is HARD, and being newly sober makes it harder. I'm really sorry you find yourself here, and I know no one is telling you what you want to hear, but we want to help. As XYZ said, the stories here with the purple icons are those of rebuilt marriages, not saved marriages.  You have to be in a place where you are healthy and whole enough on your own that you could rebuild your marriage if the time comes, and the way to get to that healthy and whole place is by taking care of yourself and your kids, learning who you are now on your own, and releasing the desire to control her or the situation. If you stand guard where you are now and focus your energy on fighting for her, that leaves no room to focus on you. Don't let yourself get lost in the rubble of her implosion.

She’s denying saying she doesn’t even know how to make her list private to others but me and that the people I heard that from must not be her friends on there. And adding the guys “making friends” she said you have no idea where I met these people through work, through her brother , through tinder for all I know. Which I said probably tinder and she flipped the firetruck out and cussed me out and locked herself in a bathroom yelling firetruck off go away. And I told her I know you’re trying to get to me and I get it but when you’re ready to talk and handle it. I love you and I am here. And I’m gonna fight for you

This is my dilemma.

[Baxter1]

To jump on to others I don’t think anything you do/don’t do makes a difference. My wife said the same thing about me not fighting for her. I’m not sure how you can fight for someone who, in her present state, doesn’t really care. I could buy every rose on the planet and it would mean nothing to her. She is in her own world so to speak. She may come out of this world in a couple of years, feel free to join the standers club but the cost of admission is patience, and a lot of it. All I can do at this point is wait and work on myself. Be a better person, she may admire what you’ve become, she may not. Either way you’re a new and improved version 2.0, that is a gift you give yourself.

[Reinventing]

I hope to get guidance on whether she needs me to fight harder or needs me to back off. When she does things so blatantly aimed at me and getting a reaction from me.

You didn't cause this so you can't fix it.

If she says you didn't fight for her, it's just another fault of yours on a long list so she can justify her fantasy life. You are bad = I can pursue a fantasy life without guilt.

Focus on you. There is no fighting, cajoling, or other ways to get them out of crisis mode.

If there was, we would for sure let you in on the secret.

[Ichoosefaith]

NAS.
I understand your thinking however making her friends list private to everyone other than me. I confirmed with like 6 mutual friends. They only see mutual and the main list says it’s private. But not to me. That is not an accident it is deliberate. That’s not what I assume that is a fact. Why else am I the only one who can see it?

It had a reason whether to hurt me or make me jealous or whatever. She wanted me and only me to see it.


Everything else you’ve said has merit. And again thank you for reaching out.