[KayDee]

Heaven knows if I have done this right. I went at the speed of a slug riding a glacier with my last thread, didn't think I would get a new one.

Here's the old one https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11981.0

Recap
Married 20 years - all peachy IMO, although he seemed quite depressed a year before.
BD 7/22 - left home almost immediately. Confusing departure message and bad packing of clothes, meaning continual returns, until I went NC for my sanity.
Sorta OW (maybe EA) - didn't stick
7/23 OW2 - moved in with her and her kids. Just after a major touch and go.
Now talking about divorce, although asks me what I think about it, as if it has nothing to do with him.
Major FOO issues.
The Complete Kit

[WHY]

I think the most important thing Marvin said is that the core was unstable to begin with. That, imho, is the most important thing to realize. A completely stable and healthy person didn't blow up and therefore they will eventually reassemble as their  "old self." The core WAS unstable. The reasons for that are unique to each person, but if that's not addressed, even a "reassembled" person after crisis will still be to varying degrees unhealthy - again, just my opinion.

I spoke BusyBee ~1.5 years ago.  She went through MLC and was extremely helpful in trying to understand what goes on in the mind of an at home wallower with fantasy alienator. 

She said she had no FOO issues.  Good home.  Good upbringing.  She doesnt know why she did what she did, but she worked through it, and came out on the other side. 

This is another example of the group think I mentioned.  It seems like in the vast majority of cases there are FOO issues.  But in her case, there werent. 
So why the "core isnt intact" is not always clear. 

I wish we had the knowledge to understand the human brain better and help the MLCers out there.  It destroys families.

[xyzcf]

She said she had no FOO issues.  Good home.  Good upbringing.  She doesnt know why she did what she did, but she worked through it, and came out on the other side.

Why, Thank you for bringing this up.

I read what Nas wrote and thought 2 things...we all perhaps have some instability in our core and who would be considered a "completely stable and healthy person"?

My husband too had great parents, good home, lots of friends...there were not any signs that he was "unstable" in his core...spending 35 years together, I would think I would have had some clue. He is incredibly successful, incredibly smart...not sure he would have got to the level he got to being anything but stable.

We both have traits, personality idiosyncrasies, things inside of us from hurts in the past...actually my childhood was far less "stable" than his was. So why did he have a crisis? and not me?

I don't think it is necessary to examine under a microscope what are the FOO issues or what signs did they show of any Instability...this crisis is happening now and there are a variety of theories as to why. The thing is, we have to deal with someone who is opposite of who they once were which is confusing and challenging. Learning to cope with this, as with any other life changing event requires some understanding of the "issue" but also how to best navigate for our own health and sanity.

[Nas]

I think the most important thing Marvin said is that the core was unstable to begin with. That, imho, is the most important thing to realize. A completely stable and healthy person didn't blow up and therefore they will eventually reassemble as their  "old self." The core WAS unstable. The reasons for that are unique to each person, but if that's not addressed, even a "reassembled" person after crisis will still be to varying degrees unhealthy - again, just my opinion.

I spoke BusyBee ~1.5 years ago.  She went through MLC and was extremely helpful in trying to understand what goes on in the mind of an at home wallower with fantasy alienator. 

She said she had no FOO issues.  Good home.  Good upbringing.  She doesnt know why she did what she did, but she worked through it, and came out on the other side. 

This is another example of the group think I mentioned.  It seems like in the vast majority of cases there are FOO issues.  But in her case, there werent. 
So why the "core isnt intact" is not always clear. 

I wish we had the knowledge to understand the human brain better and help the MLCers out there.  It destroys families.

Not every person who suffers from psychological dis-ease has FOO issues. People with what they call idyllic childhoods can suffer from depression. When people talk about FOO issues, it is just one of several possible factors that might have contributed to a crisis.

I don't subscribe to "group think." I share my opinion and I don't speak for any group. In fact, my views often differ from the norm here. But I will say that one anecdote from one former poster detailing what she believes was an MLC even though she came from what in her subjective view was a good family, good upbringing isn't proof positive that some perfectly healthy people go into crisis. IMO, no one with a stable core behaves the way a person in crisis behaves, and if the core was unstable enough to cause such a chaotic fracture of the psyche, that won't simply be resolved without working through the reasons the core was unstable to being with. Again, IMO.

I read what Marvin wrote and thought 2 things...we all perhaps have some instability in our core and who would be considered a "completely stable and healthy person"?

Just want to point out that Marvin didn't say "completely stable and healthy person." I did.

And I agree, anyone can have issues to varying degrees, but, again, IMO, a fracture of the psyche like the kind that occurs in "MLC" is not merely "some instability." People with healthy cores are able to access tools and coping mechanisms. I won't venture into talking about brain chemistry because I'm not a neuroscientist, but I do believe that if any size population were routinely experiencing such a complete altering of brain chemistry on a level that causes them to act like pod people, the field of neuroscience would be so intrigued, they'd jump at the chance to study it (and they could, through MRIs and other means that would allow them to actually identify and study the altered brain chemistry, but they don't because this is all layman hypothesizing about what's happening during MLC.)

I don't think it is necessary to examine under a microscope what are the FOO issues or what signs did they show of any Instability...this crisis is happening now and there are a variety of theories as to why.

I very much agree with this. The reason why will never be known - even if the MLCer one day decides to share, their "why" will be different from someone else's "why" and it will only be their own perception of their experience, which they may or may not have a complete understanding of themselves.  Spending too much time asking why and trying to figure out the cause is a waste of LBS's time. It's focusing on the person in crisis and on a crisis the LBS can do nothing about.

[xyzcf]

Sorry Nas, I edited my post to reflect that you had written this.
 

I do believe that if any size population were routinely experiencing such a complete altering of brain chemistry on a level that causes them to act like pod people, the field of neuroscience would be so intrigued, they'd jump at the chance to study it (and they could, through MRIs and other means that would allow them to actually identify and study the altered brain chemistry, but they don't because this is all layman hypothesizing about what's happening during MLC.)

But who would fund such research? It seems that we accept that people change, marriages end, people divorce, we were never meant to live this long thus never meant to be in a marriage for our entire life....

And often the MLCer seems pretty normal to others, they wear their masks well.

[mcm64d]

I like the title. Any particular reason?

[KayDee]

I like the title. Any particular reason?

It's a saying in Ireland. And I like the sentiment. I have been working on patience, but also, trying to understand how sometimes, doing nothing is the right thing to do. To be still. To be still is actually doing something I feel. So, I'm trying to take time to look around me, to survey the landscape, to see where I may put my foot next. To respond, not react. And be grateful for the present.

[KayDee]

Wow, I see my new thread is filled up with a lively debate  As I was reading people's posts, I was wondering what we consider the 'core'. It's interesting to me, because I was talking to a friend about my experience recently, about the traumatic aftermath of BD. And I said 'but I'm OK, the core held'. So it's curious that this has come up in my thread. I'm thinking about what this means to me. I think, when I said it, I meant my sense of self. That I maintained a belief in my values and integrity. And I suppose that's why I earlier referenced identity crisis - I suspect this type of crisis happens when the identity lacks wholeness or is diffuse. But I also think there is something about the role our emotional responses play. These come from early attachment. If we are securely attached, we probably have a good set of coping mechanisms. If we are not securely attached, our emotional responses are less regulated, ergo our coping skills are less stable. IMO identity formation and attachment styles are related. I also believe that someone can have an insecure attachment despite a seemingly idyllic childhood. It's often impossible to know the cause, because attachment happens pre-language. An insecure bond is not always to do with long-term FOO dysfunction. For instance, post-natal depression can be a cause of an insecure attachment. Or a childhood illness. Neither the fault of the FOO. But, I suppose if insecure attachment relates to inter-generational trauma, as is common, then issues prevail and impact on the subsequent stages of development in childhood. It is immensely complicated.

I'm not sure if it helps me that much.  My H has had significant therapy in the past. He has insight. He is aware of his trauma. I cannot predict how (if) he will piece himself together again. I just really hope he can do it in a way that means he can have a life without such dis-ease. Actually, today I spent time with a friend who had a complete mental breakdown. He was hospitalised for a period. He's the loveliest guy - a work in progress, I think he would say. His life is different now, than it was before, but he has joy and contentment and he is kind and loving.

[UrsaMajor]

Hi KayDee,

I added a link to this thread to your old one. Otherwise, everything was fine.

Attaching here...

UM

[KayDee]

Thank you UM. Do I graduate from Serf to Novice