[KayDee]

This is a really interesting article about healthy versus unhealthy coping styles. With a great set of illustrations.

It may be reaffirming to many of us here that our responses and ways of coping are pretty good, despite it all - something to be grateful for.

https://positivepsychology.com/unhealthy-coping-mechanisms/

[WHY]

Why are there so few reconciliation stories. Or stories where the MLCer wanted to come back but LBS had moved on?

Our belief is that vast the majority of MLCers don’t find happiness and hit some sort of rock bottom and want their old life back. But some don’t do the work and never return, but at least wanted their old life back.  Some keep running for the rest of their lives and never hit rock bottom.  Some hit rock bottom but never find the courage to rebuild. 

And then of course there’s the LBS.  who may have moved on.  Or not willing to reconcile. 

That said, how come there aren’t more ”attempted return” stories.  Or LBS stories where the MLCer wanted to come back but LBS said no. 

Is the truth that most of the MLCers never try to find their way back home?

[Ready2Transform]

That's a toughie to get data on. A quick Google has separations in general (probably including some MLC) with a 15% reconciliation rate, and remarriage after divorce in general (also probably including some MLC) with a 6% rate. Not high numbers, but not non-existent.

If you look at the cumulative, very non-scientific sample here on HS, the odds aren't good. When I came here in 2012, there were far fewer posters, and many more reconciliations. But...the site had not been around for long, and most MLCs looked to last under 5 years (3 was really the average, from what I gathered, at that time). Some of those reconciliation stories from that time ended up breaking up again, so to me, it's all far more complicated than the tunnel story would initially have us believe.

Most reconciliations do seem to happen earlier on. The people who have long-term relationships with their former spouses (ie they weren't vanishers) seem to have formed new friendship-type relationships. Those are transformations of sorts, even if they're not the ones people were standing for. Those have never really been tracked here (maybe they should be? It's not discouraging to think that someday you could have a friendship again).

But, and this is not to be Debbie Downer, it really doesn't seem like it's a matter of people reconciling and then just never coming back to the forum (something else we've thrown around through the years). There could be those random cases, but in general, most old timers who were regular posters usually check back in at some point, and most of the news is usually more of the same, with their MLCers still lost out there in the mist.

It's so sad that this happened to any of us. But I want to be encouraging in a different regard. I used to spend every spare minute looking for returns, data, or any info that would keep me in there for my former spouse. And now, it never crosses my mind. Full acceptance, and it feels good. I have my life back. So even if they never get out of MLC, it's possible for *us* to get out of MLC.

[WHY]

That's a toughie to get data on. A quick Google has separations in general (probably including some MLC) with a 15% reconciliation rate, and remarriage after divorce in general (also probably including some MLC) with a 6% rate. Not high numbers, but not non-existent.

I actually found the same on Google.  Which makes me think that standing is basically pointless.  1 in 20 Ds remarry?  It's probably best to accept the reality of the situation and move on & rebuild as best you can. 

The recovered MLCers stories all say that LBS moving on was the best thing they could have done.  Perhaps its best to think about standing as LBS healing until we're strong enough to move on VS hanging on for your MLCer to return.     

[zartheit]

The recovered MLCers stories all say that LBS moving on was the best thing they could have done.  Perhaps its best to think about standing as LBS healing until we're strong enough to move on VS hanging on for your MLCer to return.     

I don't remember reading differently. No one said I should "move on" but all of the advice I received was about strengthening myself. I remember explicitly seeing that the best thing for my relationship was to become strong.

I personally don't think I would have listened to any advice that required me to drop my (now) ex-wife. I was too surprised, confused, scared, and hurting to think that this could be more than a misunderstanding to be weathered and smoothed out. Those first steps towards detachment almost felt like a betrayal, and I am glad that those offering the advice were as gentle and understanding of my state of mind.

I agree that accepting reality as clearly as we're able is the path towards caring effectively for ourselves. I also remember that when the bomb blasted off my skin that I was not in the most rational frame of mind. Once my skin grew back (S L O W L Y), I was more able to navigate the situation as it developed. I am grateful for the wisdom given to me by those further up ahead. My own philosophy is to meet people where they're at and help them through this to achieve their goals, whatever they may be. It is their life, their choice. Strengthening themselves FOR their partner also happens to be the best way that I know of for them to strengthen themselves for themselves.

[KayDee]

For people who think that their MLC spouse had a narcissistic parent, I found this article really interesting - the processes of mourning involved in having a NPD parent seems to map somewhat to what is seen in MLC. The whole article is really good

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/lifetime-connections/202302/grieving-twice-adult-children-of-narcissistic-parents

but I am cutting and pasting two sections in the main body, because I think the 'Yearning and Searching' is probably when our spouses were attracted to us, if we came from a secure family unit. And the Despair and Disorganisation sounds quite a bit like MLC.  If we consider that the trigger is often the death or illness of the parent, it makes sense. It's one of the first articles I have read that frames it so well.

Yearning and Searching
As the child matures, they may learn how different their own family dynamics were from others and experience a sense of belonging within these other spaces. Yearning and searching are the activities of the second phase of grief and children of narcissists may be hungry for a “normal” family, where each person is seen for who they are and where family members function interdependently, not codependently. Other adolescent or adult children of narcissists may not have access to these same safe spaces to find a sense of normality and may just experience an aching yearning for things to be different. Narcissists work to fill the void inside themselves, and their children may experience their parent’s presence as a void, in itself.

Despair and Disorganization
As adult children of narcissists separate from the narcissist and their influence on their lives, they may enter the third stage of despair and disorganization. During this stage, the full weight of the loss of a relationship they never had can hit. There may be an overwhelming sense of despair that can present differently depending on the person. Some of us may isolate ourselves and withdraw from our social circles to ruminate on the past and heal from the pain. Others may turn their despair into action and seek out relationships to fill the void left by the acknowledged loss. Some may experience the loss through physical symptoms – fatigue, irritability, oversleeping, headaches, stomachaches, or heaviness in the chest. Anger and acting out may be expressions of despair for some, too. When we feel helpless and unable to find our way to safety, especially when accompanied by the loss of a relationship that never existed, we may regress to primal-level survival tactics.

[Treasur]

In the same spirit, a podcast about a son’s experience of a narcissistic father….rather chilling in parts tbh, but some of his questions as he tries to make sense of what makes no sense at all reminded me of the process that most of us LBS go though post BD  https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/how-to-destroy-everything/id1689464000?i=1000620965928

[Nas]

https://3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2024/02/how-changing-the-metaphors-we-use-can-change-the-way-we-think.html

I love language. In fact (if I actually bought into the concept of love languages), you could say that my love language is language. And two huge pieces of the work I’ve been doing on and for myself are brutal self honesty and shifting mindset. Which is what brought me to this article. Thinking about the role of metaphor in shaping our reality interests and excites the poet in me.

I have talked in the past about my apprehension about the metaphor of the tunnel in MLC. It doesn’t matter what else is written about the journey of the person in crisis, our minds view a tunnel as something where you go in one end and you come out the other. That’s just how our brain makes sense of the word tunnel. No matter what else we say, we just don’t conceptualize a tunnel where something enters and doesn’t exit.

The vision of the MLCer emerging from the darkness into the bright sunlight of the other side, almost happening at a level below thought, can and most likely does influence at least some of the choices the LBS makes. Similar with the idea of “the fog” because as we conceive of fog, it always lifts. The metaphor matters. As this article says much more eloquently, the metaphorical conceptualizations we use affect how we act.

“Metaphors are (metaphorically) woven into the fabric of our language and thought, shaping how we grasp and articulate abstract concepts. We should therefore feel free to prudently explore alternative metaphors and judge whether they perform better.”

I don’t know what would be an appropriate alternative. Something less linear though, something without a clear start and finish/beginning and end might be useful.

(One of my own imperfect metaphors: very early on, I wrote once about my former husband as being alone in something of a mental escape room, where he could choose to do the work, look for the clues, solve the puzzles, find the key and open the door. He might put in the effort and get out. He might just truly not possess the ability to solve one or a few or all the puzzles. Or he might just sit there and never even try. )

🎶 https://youtu.be/5Rp2Jg7iUx0

[WHY]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35582864/#:~:text=Women%20show%20a%20heightened%20risk,this%20midlife%20increase%20in%20risk.

[jmnab]

This is a really interesting article about healthy versus unhealthy coping styles. With a great set of illustrations.

It may be reaffirming to many of us here that our responses and ways of coping are pretty good, despite it all - something to be grateful for.

https://positivepsychology.com/unhealthy-coping-mechanisms/

Ooof... the escape and isolation sections resonated.
Shouldn't accommodation be in the negative (for us)? I know that's a big reason I am here.