[GinasPrayer2024]

I did something tonight that I probably shouldn't have but couldn't help myself.  After I had gone to bed, he called a good (male) friend of his to talk. This is the friend who originally told him he needed to stop lying and be upfront with me about what was going on with OW.  So this is someone that I know as well and respect.  He thought I was asleep, but I was actually eavesdropping.  (Not that I am exactly proud of it.)

He told this friend pretty much the same things he has told me.  Except he has told me many times he loves me, but he did not say this to the friend.  He said he wanted to keep the family together.  (Not exactly sure what the question was, but I imagine it was something like "do you want to stay with her") He also said he thought I did not want to lose the "situation" (stability, family, etc.), but not necessarily him.  You see, he had convinced himself that I had fallen out of love with him.  He interpreted my being crabby a good amount of the time and not wanting to have sex all that often (about once a week) as me not loving him.  That is NOT TRUE!!! No, I don't want to lose my situation, but I do not want to lose HIM.  Of course, there was plenty that annoyed me about him, but - and I have told him this - I NEVER, not for one millisecond - ever thought that I didn't love him or that I wasn't in love with him.  He has tried to convince me that I was unhappy in this marriage as well, but I WASN'T!!! Of course, there are things that could be improved upon, and I had known for a long time that my emotional needs weren't being fully met.  (He has always been very dismissive of my feelings that he deemed frivolous; he used to say to me all the time "That sounds like a 'you' problem." GRRRRR!!!!) But I would still say that overall I was happy with our marriage. I just accept that after almost 20 years, we are not going to be all lovey-dovey all the time, we are going to get on each others nerves, etc.  I think it's quite ironic how he says I take everything so personally just because I cry easily, and yet he's the one that took all this stuff REALLY personally.  I guess that's one of the problems, right?  As a woman, I'm "allowed" to be emotional, whereas he isn't. 

He did tell the friend that he is not seeing the OW anymore and that after her initial time of being upset and trying to convince him not to break up with her, she agreed it was best that they don't continue so as to not keep hurting anyone (me, our children, his mother who is slowly dying of cancer and would be very upset with him if she knew any of this - I realize what's going on with his mom is part of his MLC.)  So that's good.  He had told me the same, but of course it's hard to believe someone when they have lied to your face.)  Side note - my husband has expressed this feeling of "I want something, but I don't know what" (a sign of MLC).  But he did say that what he wants is something he knows he can't have - both of us - me as "main wife" I guess and her as concubine/side chick.  And get this - he says the OW was willing to do this!  Um, no, that is not going to happen.   

He also told the friend that even though they wouldn't be continuing the relationship (at least for now, ugh), that she is still one of the "dopest" people he's ever met.  (Eye roll.)  This is because she speaks 3 languages (she's originally from Thailand), can cook really well, and was once a volunteer firefighter.  Well, I mean, good for her, but can't he see that he used to be sort of "in awe" of me back when we first met?  At the time I was a soldier in the U.S. Army and a marathon runner.  I'm only mentioning these things because he used to tell me how awesome he thought those things were.  Can't he see he used to feel about me the way he feels about her?  Do I have to remind him that this whole thing started because she is mentally unstable?  Doesn't he realize that if he married her that after a while, her sex drive would cool, he would find things about her annoying (such as her being manipulative, which he has already said she is), and that the limerance wouldn't last? I think he does, but I wish he would have said something to that effect to his friend. 

I called the Veterans Crisis line two days ago.  I really was just inquiring about mental health services for him to help him through this depression, but the coordinator asked me how I was doing as well.  As soon as she asked that, I started crying, and said not great.  She put me on with a counselor, and I told him what was going on.  Even though he's a complete stranger on the phone, I can't tell you how good it felt to tell SOMEONE about this.  So thanks to you all as well for letting me vent. 

[Reinventing]

GP, are you able to get continued counseling? I found it really helpful through the worst of it all.

[UrsaMajor]

You see, he had convinced himself that I had fallen out of love with him. 

Projection 101

No, I don't want to lose my situation, but I do not want to lose HIM.  Of course, there was plenty that annoyed me about him, but - and I have told him this - I NEVER, not for one millisecond - ever thought that I didn't love him or that I wasn't in love with him.  He has tried to convince me that I was unhappy in this marriage as well, but I WASN'T!!!

Projection 101 Part 2 - He is trying to justify his actions by projecting on you

Of course, there are things that could be improved upon,

Nope, they never are "perfect" because WE are only human and not perfect.

(He has always been very dismissive of my feelings that he deemed frivolous; he used to say to me all the time "That sounds like a 'you' problem." GRRRRR!!!!)

To me, that sounds like a "I'm a closet narcissist" problem. Being dismissive of the feelings of one's partner is not a good sign, MLC or not....

He did tell the friend that he is not seeing the OW anymore and that after her initial time of being upset and trying to convince him not to break up with her, she agreed it was best that they don't continue so as to not keep hurting anyone (me, our children, his mother who is slowly dying of cancer and would be very upset with him if she knew any of this)

But he did say that what he wants is something he knows he can't have - both of us - me as "main wife" I guess and her as concubine/side chick.  And get this - he says the OW was willing to do this!  Um, no, that is not going to happen.   

People in Hades want Ice Water too..... 

He also told the friend that even though they wouldn't be continuing the relationship (at least for now, ugh), that she is still one of the "dopest" people he's ever met.  (Eye roll.) 

Just proves that he has regressed to Teenage Years..... Even my 16-year-old won't use that term.... or the German equivalent

This is because she speaks 3 languages (she's originally from Thailand), can cook really well, and was once a volunteer firefighter. 

Well, I mean, good for her, but can't he see that he used to be sort of "in awe" of me back when we first met?  At the time I was a soldier in the U.S. Army and a marathon runner.  I'm only mentioning these things because he used to tell me how awesome he thought those things were.  Can't he see he used to feel about me the way he feels about her? 

Nope... He can't because you have been promoted to the status of Satan's 2nd cousin as LBS.....

Do I have to remind him that this whole thing started because she is mentally unstable?  Doesn't he realize that if he married her that after a while, her sex drive would cool, he would find things about her annoying (such as her being manipulative, which he has already said she is), and that the limerance wouldn't last? I think he does, but I wish he would have said something to that effect to his friend. 

No, you don't, no he doesn't and no he won't because that would imply accepting responsibility for his actions and, until they are well and truly done with their MLC, the Mid-Lifer would rather have their squishy bits pounded flat with a Ball-Peen Hammer than accept responsibility  for their actions....

Besides, he's living in the world of puppy dogs with waggly tails, cotton candy clouds and unicorns that run around farting big clouds of rainbow glitter in La La Land...

I called the Veterans Crisis line two days ago.  I really was just inquiring about mental health services for him to help him through this depression, but the coordinator asked me how I was doing as well.  As soon as she asked that, I started crying, and said not great.  She put me on with a counselor, and I told him what was going on.  Even though he's a complete stranger on the phone, I can't tell you how good it felt to tell SOMEONE about this.  So thanks to you all as well for letting me vent.

Good for you! Shoot the wolf closest to the sled first - take care of your own mental, physical, and financial well-being first and foremost.

[GinasPrayer2024]

GP, are you able to get continued counseling? I found it really helpful through the worst of it all.

Yes.  We have health insurance that will cover individual mental health but also I think I can probably get something through the VA.  I'm going to see about that. 

[KayDee]

You see, he had convinced himself that I had fallen out of love with him. 

Projection 101

While I don't disagree with this, I have a slightly different take. Things usually tip into crisis under the weight of difficulties, during which time the crisis person's self-esteem or self worth hits a very low point. It's likely then they are looking to their spouse to notice their distress / depression, to lift them up somehow. But we poor souls, we haven't really understood the depths of what is going on, usually because the MLC did not communicate that anything was wrong. And, from my observation, this situation often occurs when the non-crisis spouse's attention may be focused elsewhere for a while. Could be for something good - new job, a success, a new baby even. Or not so good, like an illness, issues with children or parents needing support etc. And because fear of rejection and abandonment is common with the FOO that lays the foundation for crisis the MLC maybe internalises or perceives neglect. The spectre of abandonment. None of this is your fault, or about you, or any of us in fact, but I do think there is some truth in the feeling of neglect and not being loved, or loved enough (I had both stated as a 'cause' at BD). People who fear (really pathologically fear) abandonment, often abandon first. It's a very destructive defense mechanism.

This is my perception - but once the crisis begins, I don't think there's much that can be done to convince the crisis person otherwise because someone else saw an opportunity and, in the case of your H, with some great cooking and linguistic gymnastics presented a lovely vision of escape. It's a house of cards of course, but he needs to work that out. Plus the issue of not communicating his needs, fearing rejection and running away - they are for him to untangle.

And BTW, it's not how he feels about her, it's how she makes him feel. There's a crucial distinction.

So sorry you are here, but glad you found the forum and are getting some IC.

[GinasPrayer2024]

KD,
Thank you so very much. I refuse to believe that my husband is a bad person, or that what we had for many years wasn't real. There are contributing factors to his depression. One, as I mentioned, is that his mother has cancer and is very slowly dying (whether old age or the cancer will ultimately take her remains to be seen). Another huge factor is his job as a corrections officer. It is something he used to enjoy, but things have gotten very bad there with staff shortages and constant forced overtime. Up until December, he also worked third shift, which left him chronically sleep-deprived. I read this can mess with one's serotonin, which is the hormone that provides a sense of calm and well-being. I have always worried about his lack of sleep but my concern was more along the lines of a heart attack or falling asleep at the wheel. I can see he's in deep pain. Right before all this happened, my S18 and I noticed he was drinking a lot, and it has gotten worse since the affair was revealed. I just so wish I could have my real husband back.

M 50
H 51
Married 19.75 years
S18, D11
OW - 40
1st IED June 2023
Ballistic missile: Dec 18, 2023

[MadLuv]

GP2024- I felt the same. I refused to think my XH was a bad man. I don’t believe still that he is in his core, but they lose their way and for now I do believe my XH is a bad man, because that is what he is showing. They lose their moral compass.  That is what you have to be careful of is that you also are not justifying his actions. My XH had diabetes2, low T, depression, high pressure job, lost our  D14, lost his father. So many things???  Yet, I also had cancer, lost both parents, lost D14, lost my job. I could go on and on. Did I look for escapes?? Nooooo

So, they are in crisis. They are no themselves and they wont be  until they do the work. Right now escape and avoid is the easiest option.  It takes a long time to accept this situation and the new reality that you are living  and each MLCer and LBS are unique in life experiences and coping skills, so the best advice that is always given is do your best to let go and focus on you. This also takes time.

The one thing LBS do that the MLCer doesn’t? We look at ourselves, we read and learn, we look for answers. That is healthy coping. That is where you will
Start to find your way through it all.  Thats is what has gotten me through, so only my thoughts. There is no textbook. Just everyone telling you how they made it through and you take what you think will help you.

[GinasPrayer2024]

Thank you.  You know something I find strange?  He says everything hurts (his body) but won't try the Osteo Bi-Flex I take for joint health.  He admits he's depressed but I know he's not going to call that number for the VA that I gave him. 

If the feelings for me are not there, wouldn't it be great if they came back?  I feel like he isn't really open to them coming back.  With the drinking, he is wallowing.  Maybe he's still on a dopamine high from her and isn't ready to lose that feeling.  I guess I get that one.  Problem is, I know she won't leave him alone.  I do not want to be the wife that demands to see her husband's phone or tracks his every move by his phone.  That would only drive him away anyway. 

Guess I answered my own question about the feelings, but I still find not taking the joint health supplement to be weird.  He complains about feeling like an old man!  Guess he's wallowing in that, too.

[MadLuv]

My XH married his OWife and I can tell you that she is an affair down in everyway. He has alway stated many times that he just wants his old life back. I believe that, but they have done so much they dont see a way and the affair down is someone  willing to ignore all the red flags they are showing.  My XH OWife is a unbelievable materialistic narcissist person.  He bends over backwards  giving her everything she ask for, yet she will not cook for him. Make him shave all his body hair… I could go on and on.  They just are in a place that we can’t even imagine, but they also are choosing not to help themselves. It’s difficult to grasp they are willing to throw everything away rather than face themselves, but thats what they do.

[GinasPrayer2024]

Another thing which struck me in this conversation he had with his (our) friend is him complaining about something about me which we have been over many times.  So one of the things that led him to being unhappily married was this:

In my family of origin, we always ate dinner together.  It might not have been a great dinner, but 9 times out of 10, if you were home, you came to the table and ate with the family.  It's just what it was.  I don't think it was like that in his family.  But when I make a meal, I really expect everyone to come to the table.  My husband has never seen it this way.  He wants to eat when he gets good and ready.  If he is playing a video game or just not that hungry, he won't come.  It has always been one of the most frustrating things for me.  How can I make the kids come to the table to eat if their father won't do it??? Over the years, this really wore me down and I have not put a whole lot of effort into cooking for a while.  Not only will my husband not come to dinner, but my son (now 18) decided to start eating healthy to the extreme and often would not want to eat what I made.  Our daughter (who was abandoned by her bio parents) has her own control issues with food and also often refuses to eat.  (She's not anorexic, just only wants to eat certain foods.)  So every time there's a meal, no one eats it half the time.  And yet, if I don't cook anything, inevitably someone asks: "What are we eating?"  Gah, it's so frustrating! 
So he was complaining to his friend that I do the cooking "with pure hatred."  I've explained to him many times why I feel this way, why I get crabby about it, but even now - he doesn't get it.  He doesn't see how his attitude and behavior contributed to the problem. 
I guess my eyes are being opened to the fact that I am truly the more emotionally mature person in this relationship.  I don't mean to sound braggy, but it seems to be true.  I have always told him - the difference between you and me is that I know and admit I have faults.  Only very rarely has he ever apologized to me (the affair was one), only very rarely does he admit he was wrong.   And you know what, I can live with it.  I have been all this time.  I apologize to myself sometimes, lol.  Perhaps I should have demanded more, but I became fine with taking care of myself emotionally.  Not that I did completely as is evident by my outbursts.  But again, I'm human, I have flaws.  I am just astounded that he doesn't see how he contributed to that problem. 
You know, it's funny, we were both in the Army and originally went to our unit chaplain to marry us, but he wanted us to go through pre-marital counseling, which we didn't think we needed.  (Can you say Naive?) One of the things he mentioned at our initial consultation was how family traditions like eating meals together isn't the same for all families, so a couple needs to know what the expectations are of each other.  I remember thinking "Oh, we don't need this.  Of course he wants to eat family meals together."  Turns out, it's one of the biggest problems in our relationship! 

Insert OW with her amazing cooking skills!  Mind you, she basically got to show off her best for him. She wasn't cooking for him day in/day out.  She actually was unemployed at the time and does not have any children.  So she had all the time in the world to make some amazing meals for him!  Ugh!  Why doesn't he realize this?