[Atari25]

It IS hopeless because you (the LBS) is absolutely the LAST person on the entire planet that can help the Mid-Lifer grow or heal.... All you can do is sit tight, grab the popcorn, and watch the impending train wreck from far enough away to not get caught in the resulting destruction more than you already have....

I don't wish and harm to my wife and I don't want to see a train wreck. I honestly feel bad for her even though she has really hurt me in so many ways. She is incapable of finding happiness and I suspect her path will not change. A very strong avoidant!

You are right though - I can't help her.

[Atari25]

We had our first mediation meeting on Friday - it was brutal. We are using a neutral mediator that we both agreed to but I had not met with my new lawyer yet.

W said she wanted 1/2 house and spousal support. Problem is she had all kinds of extra debt that she didn't reveal until this meeting so now it seems I'm on the hook for 1/2 of that since she claims it was business related (my name is on her company which is bankrupt). It's complicated so I need to chat about this with lawyer tomorrow.

The weird part of the meeting was her request to get 10 years of support paid up-front - amount is in the $450,000 range!!!!

On what planet does she think I can come up with $500K for the house PLUS another $450K cash to pay her out? W claims this is the way to go as I wouldn't have to deal with payments for the next 10 years... what??

I basically said nothing yet other than I have to talk to my lawyer, for me it was a meeting to get an idea of what she wanted. She is clearly delusional!!!

[Flummoxed]

Good for you, Atari25! Absolutely stay cool and meet with your lawyer to determine best next steps. I’m really sorry to hear about the less than ideal surprise, but your lawyer will help outline how to best proceed from here. Requests can be made, but that doesn’t mean we need to react to them and you handled it really well. Please do something kind for yourself until you need to discuss strategy- process those emotions and let them go.

I also want to add that the nature of this issue requires them to hit their personal rock bottom in order to (hopefully) inspire them to crawl out from the depths. We can’t do anything but hope they hit that place and sometimes a little humor is needed as we ourselves make progress on our journey. We’re not cheering for their destruction, but we also kind of are, from a safe distance if that makes sense.

[JohnnyBravo]

Were you and your wife isolated with only the mediator going back and forth? That’s how it was for me, and I was mostly thankful. (My ex-wife had moved away, so she and her atty were on a zoom call to the mediator in another room.)

Mine wanted to hammer out details beforehand so we would have a short mediation, but much like yours she wanted impossible things so I had to work it all with my atty and the mediation. “I don’t want half of your 401k, I just want cash.” Where am I going to get this cash from?

At least you’ve gotten started. I found this was much easier when I had actual tasks to accomplish.

JB

[Treasur]

I’m sorry, Atari, that your stbxw is being so MLC textbook but agree with others that you handled it well and wisely.

With years of hindsight - and a mea culpa #metoo from over here lol - what strikes me as being a smudge delusional is less this textbook behaviour but more how shocking we LBS find it. If someone can lie, cheat and behave with so little empathy and kindness after years together, it’s odd really that we expect them to behave with some honesty and fairness during a divorce process, isn’t it?

And yet most of us do. I did.

I can still remember being shocked and a bit confused by just how dishonest and unfair by then h was in everything from big things to small things….it made no sense to me at all, I couldn’t even see how it served him at times, it was almost surreal - so many lies and so much weird self-centredness. I simply could not understand why, if I could summon the grace to accept his desire to leave, he would not want to behave with some grace in how he left. But of course that was me projecting my values and priorities on someone else who evidently no longer shared them. And I couldn’t understand it bc I’m not wired that way and the person I’d known for decades had behaved differently for decades.

But if you think about it, that was a bit silly of me, wasn’t it? If you can lie and cheat and steal when my father was dying, or when I had cancer, that’s a pretty low bar. Why would I expect better in a divorce process or think he would be concerned about my well-being at all when he’d evidently chosen a path already that he wanted regardless of how damaging it might be for me? So, imho, some of the ‘delusional’ bit lies with us LBS…we expect something a bit better or fairer or kinder long after that ship has sailed.

Which is why you handled it very well. It takes a little time, and sometimes the detached eye of a lawyer, to see how things are as opposed to how we think they should be. Your stbxw is allowed to ask for the moon with a side order of chips if she wishes….but it does not mean that you or your lawyer or life is obliged to serve it up for her. She may not like that, she may not like you or your lawyer or the universe, but what she wants is her business not your responsibility, isn’t it? And this is a time for you to figure out your own priorities and limitations, and legal obligations, regardless of her opinion. So taking time to work that out as calmly as you can is very wise and again jmo, the reason why ‘normal’ mediation rarely works with MLC types. Again jmo, but I think divorce is inherently a lose-lose process usually…all one can do is work out how to carry forward as little damage as possible in the circumstances.

[Atari25]

I’m sorry, Atari, that your stbxw is being so MLC textbook but agree with others that you handled it well and wisely.

With years of hindsight - and a mea culpa #metoo from over here lol - what strikes me as being a smudge delusional is less this textbook behaviour but more how shocking we LBS find it. If someone can lie, cheat and behave with so little empathy and kindness after years together, it’s odd really that we expect them to behave with some honesty and fairness during a divorce process, isn’t it?

And yet most of us do. I did.

I can still remember being shocked and a bit confused by just how dishonest and unfair by then h was in everything from big things to small things….it made no sense to me at all, I couldn’t even see how it served him at times, it was almost surreal - so many lies and so much weird self-centredness. I simply could not understand why, if I could summon the grace to accept his desire to leave, he would not want to behave with some grace in how he left. But of course that was me projecting my values and priorities on someone else who evidently no longer shared them. And I couldn’t understand it bc I’m not wired that way and the person I’d known for decades had behaved differently for decades.

But if you think about it, that was a bit silly of me, wasn’t it? If you can lie and cheat and steal when my father was dying, or when I had cancer, that’s a pretty low bar. Why would I expect better in a divorce process or think he would be concerned about my well-being at all when he’d evidently chosen a path already that he wanted regardless of how damaging it might be for me? So, imho, some of the ‘delusional’ bit lies with us LBS…we expect something a bit better or fairer or kinder long after that ship has sailed.

Which is why you handled it very well. It takes a little time, and sometimes the detached eye of a lawyer, to see how things are as opposed to how we think they should be. Your stbxw is allowed to ask for the moon with a side order of chips if she wishes….but it does not mean that you or your lawyer or life is obliged to serve it up for her. She may not like that, she may not like you or your lawyer or the universe, but what she wants is her business not your responsibility, isn’t it? And this is a time for you to figure out your own priorities and limitations, and legal obligations, regardless of her opinion. So taking time to work that out as calmly as you can is very wise and again jmo, the reason why ‘normal’ mediation rarely works with MLC types. Again jmo, but I think divorce is inherently a lose-lose process usually…all one can do is work out how to carry forward as little damage as possible in the circumstances.

All well said, I'm sorry you went through this also.

I always thought my wife was an honest kind person and now she seems anything but that. Very self centered and I have caught her in multiple lies the last 2 years. The hidden debt is partly my fault. Her business was struggling and I paid down all her credit cards about 6-7 years ago so she could get back on her feet. I was clearly kidding myself that she would do that. All good intentions but I had no idea what was going on with her. 

Using Divorcemate software it's pretty clear what she is entitled to and to be fair, she could have gone for 1/2 of all my retirement assets and pension also and she didn't. We will see how it all goes. I delayed the next meeting to make sure my ducks are all in a row. She seems to be in rush but it's too important for that.

[Atari25]

Were you and your wife isolated with only the mediator going back and forth? That’s how it was for me, and I was mostly thankful. (My ex-wife had moved away, so she and her atty were on a zoom call to the mediator in another room.)

Mine wanted to hammer out details beforehand so we would have a short mediation, but much like yours she wanted impossible things so I had to work it all with my atty and the mediation. “I don’t want half of your 401k, I just want cash.” Where am I going to get this cash from?

Exactly - I don't understand how she thinks it's feasible to borrow that much money. I can't imagine the payments LOL. I clearly gave her way too much credit where money and finances were concerned.

Yes we are doing the same as you, Zoom calls, my wife lives in a town about 20 minutes away since January. She has completely detached from her former life. It's so bizarre.

I also want to add that the nature of this issue requires them to hit their personal rock bottom in order to (hopefully) inspire them to crawl out from the depths. We can’t do anything but hope they hit that place and sometimes a little humor is needed as we ourselves make progress on our journey. We’re not cheering for their destruction, but we also kind of are, from a safe distance if that makes sense.

Thank you Flummoxed. I don't think she has hit rock bottom unfortunately. That is probably coming but not yet.

I know what you mean though. I think they have to hit rock bottom before they can get better. It's heartbreaking.

[Atari25]

So after meeting with lawyers and the mediator today agreement seems to be in place. Everything will probably be done by January. It's all so surreal. I am mentally exhausted and I feel like this has been the hardest and worst year of my life. I have really tried to put on a brave face and tried to have some good times but it's been so hard because "the situation" always flashes in your head and brings you down. What a horrible place we are all in or have been in.

Wife seemed almost elated when the call was done and settled. Kind of made me ill. Is this really a happy time? Have others seen this?

There is nothing happy about it but I guess MLCs have blocked their feelings and she is probably just excited about the big huge check coming her way. I only had tears in my eyes for hours after the call. Crushed again.

[forthetrees]

I´m sorry that you are in this phase of the journey. Try to take some solace in the fact that you are mentally and physically processing your loss. By not boxing it up/walling it off you will come through it. Peace does lie on the other side.

[MadLuv]

Wife seemed almost elated when the call was done and settled. Kind of made me ill. Is this really a happy time? Have others seen this?

When they first leave they feel a sense of relief. They have been thinking about this for longer than we care to think about so they are way ahead of us, but they also don't do the work. We feel the pain right away and they suppress. I think if they are still in There somewhere and are left to live this life they think they want they will feel things much later.