[mcm64d]

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

While it could be considered reckless if you advise when our spouses may not have had a midlife crisis, I think you'll find some of the newer people here would value every morsel of wisdom you could share,; that's why we are here. Could you please expand on your experiences as best as possible?

[MadLuv]

After an at home MLCer to 2 BD’s with 1 return i between . I think a MLC is about narcissistic, avoidant, emotionally immature humans that are not prepared for life’s difficulties. MyXH is all those things and he always was, but he navigated his life at a superficial pace and mirrored and love bombed and escaped all his life. The difference is that huge tragedies happened. Without that core of self you can go into a crisis that others who have faced their challenges and tragedies alpng the way can navigate through better.

So, just like some have narcissistic tendencies that doesn’t mean they are a narcissist. I do believe my XH is a covert narcissist.  Could he work out of that now? Probably not. He has created  more than a decade of escaping accountability, by lies and deception. Old habits are hard to break. Is he a bad man? I think he is now, was he? No, I think a weak man that didnt handle his life well.  Do he regret or will he regret? I think he does and thats why he is where he is. He regrets what he has become.

I think MLC can be many things, but mostly just a person that has abandoned all their morals and empathy, but who had both at one point and they just cant face who they are now. So, they leave and start over because thats easier and thats what they see as their only option.

So then why do some come out of it? Why do some return? Why do some vanish? It all come down to how shallow they have lived their life. How they have or haven't attached to people in their lives. How easy it has always been to cut people out and move on. My XH has always just cut people out. Has always isolated. He now is basically a vanisher and I believe he will remain that way.

Vanishers leave red flags throughout their life. 

[marvin4242]

I have been reading this thread trying to stay "out of it" but I feel I must post the following

It is VERY dangerous to do armchair diagnosis of anyone, even your loved ones and people you are very close to. Even professionals (therapists and psychiatrists) would not attempt such a thing without a great deal of information and time. There are many different psychological events that occur internally and MANY of them have overlapping behaviours and even external signs. For example there are "clusters" of disorders with wide ranging overlapping presentation. Even professionals will not try to "pin" someone to one single thing, for example NPD/BPD can overlap a lot and someone may move between what someone would think is a singular thing.

Additionally once someone hits some kind of mental health crises many things can happen. Sure someone may have been a covert narcissist, but we all have SOME narcissistic traits. When under significant duress we may become much more self absorbed and even functionally become a narcissist. That is NOT the same as someone who is FOUNDATIONALLY a narcissist.

I know we all would love to have answers, something that can explain what the heck happened. But as Treasur has said many times does it really matter? What changes if you could pin a label on it?

I can tell you that seven years out my wife is still in a very disordered state. I spoke to her today and she was still having a great deal of problem comprehending ideas and seemed rather disassociated and confused. And yes she is and has been very much a functional narcissist for 7+ years. But she wasn't one before, but did have narcissistic and borderline traits. In fact she was entirely TOO empathetic without enough boundaries to protect herself. Without background someone may even think she suffers from BPD. Context matters and I would leave diagnosis to experts. Even quite a few I know do not like the labels in DSM manuals, because they really do not help and are not well suited to fully capture what is really happening.

[MadLuv]

I think I stated the same. We all have the traits. MLC is a label. Are we all here to make it all make sense.  Saying they are in a crisis?  Maybe this is just what they chose then? There really is not a major difference. Its a term that matches or that you can relate to the situation. After 3 health professionals, 16 years of crisis and 30 years of marriage it is my opinion. If we don't need answers why are we here? We all want to understand.  I’m not calling my XH anything to his face.  On a board  discussing. MLC  talks about all these traits being more  common in this crisis. I agree with that. That’s all. Once I cant state my thoughts an opinions then this board is no longer a safe place for me either.

[amazinglove]

MadLuv I mad love you! Your posts ring so true for me! Thank you!

[Imgood]

Hi Midlifecrisis50, welcome and thank you for being willing to share your experience. I’m sure we all have lots of questions for you.

During the heavy first three years, were you aware that how you presented to your loved ones, had changed?

I’m curious because my exH has been in crisis for three plus years and during this time I have only once said to him: “I don’t even know who you are anymore”. Recently, I just said those same words for the second time.

It bothered him that I made that statement. He said verbatim via text:
“I don’t believe I deserve for you to continually say I’m not the person I was just because we’re divorced. That’s not fair to say because it’s not true.”

I find it interesting that his perception is that I “continually” make this statement, which couldn’t be further from the truth, hence, couldn’t be further from reality. Can you shed any light on this?

[marvin4242]

I think I stated the same. We all have the traits. MLC is a label. Are we all here to make it all make sense.  Saying they are in a crisis?  Maybe this is just what they chose then? There really is not a major difference. Its a term that matches or that you can relate to the situation. After 3 health professionals, 16 years of crisis and 30 years of marriage it is my opinion. If we don't need answers why are we here? We all want to understand.  I’m not calling my XH anything to his face.  On a board  discussing. MLC  talks about all these traits being more  common in this crisis. I agree with that. That’s all. Once I cant state my thoughts an opinions then this board is no longer a safe place for me either.

Sorry Madluv my comments were not directly aimed at what you anyone said. I apologize if there was a misunderstanding. I was more talking about the specifics of diagnosing others as a way of trying to gain control.

[KayDee]

We get into our echo chambers online, point fingers and avoid any and all critical analysis of ourselves.

That to me is what's dangerous. Not so much just using the word narcissist.

To respond this aspect, I actually think it is good that we can disagree here. That we can debate. And this remains a safe space for us to do so. From my perspective, if someone writes something I disagree with, or jars with me, it gives me pause for thought. I believe this is how we learn and grow.  Yes, echo chambers are dangerous, they polarize the world. We see it on a micro and macro level. What brings us together on this forum is a life changing event that caused us extreme distress, in most cases, trauma.  And we are brought together, first for a desire to understand what the firetruck happened and to get support from those who have been dealt a similar blow. Later, if we can, we support others (and this can also help our own healing IMO).  I actually think this community is such a rare and wonderful thing and I hope we all feel able to stay and express ourselves, and learn from each other, as long as we need to.

(so. yes, I am agreeing with gman here)

BTW, do the mods think this thread should be split into the two different questions strands now? It's getting a bit thematically muddy.

[WHY]

It would be great to get back on point and have this thread be more like a Shocksis thread.  Hopefully the mods can clean it up!

[Baxter1]

Agreed Why!