[amazinglove]

First and foremost thank you Reinventing, TrustandLove, KayDee, Treasur and Flummoxed for those thoughtful and really wise replies. They helped me a lot! I read them all several times.

My stbx is now gone and has been for 2 weeks and I have been digging out again, having been significantly set back by spending every single day with him (and long car rides to tile stores) for 3 weeks. I spoke to him today, for the first time in 2 weeks as we had to arrange something re kids and also i wanted to see his dad who has been v ill again. He texted me he was at his parents (and to be honest, I  had a super hair day today) so I called him and said hi to his mom and dad.

Here's what was hard. I did not expect to see him look so happy. In a new sweater of course and via text he more or less confirmed that he has been there with her the whole two weeks. She was NOT at my in laws home, and as far as know my FIL is still being kept in the dark. My stbx asked me how I was and I said truthfully, overwhelmed. I asked him how his teeth were going (he told us all he was going back there to 'do his teeth') and he said he wasn't starting that until next week. he's been there two weeks and so without thinking i said, oh it's been rainy there - what have you been up to? and he ignored and just said, 'yes it's been raining.' then he said 'i dont want there to be weirdness between us' so said 'well if the only question I can ask you is 'what country are you in' that will  be weird'  and I said, let me guess, shopping and travel? and he said all of the above, or something like "a bit of everything", i cant remember but I was enraged. so i let it go and moved back to the topic of kids - all I can really engage with i guess. I am here, covered in dust and mud, trying to keep all the balls in the air in the life WE made for ourselves (my d needs a tonsilectomy, my son needs ADHD meds, ortho etc etc) while he runs around smug and happy on top of the world. He works like 10 hours a week. I have a strong suspicion she is buying him a new apartment and prob a car or something. That would explain the self satisfied, really happy look. he is ALL in over there. And he is integrating her into his life (I'm sure he's intro'd her to the other sister, the one i like) and family and our family home - it was really painful to see. there was nothing good in that call for me, just a further reminder that he does not care. 

It's hard not to look back. I have to be honest here, I hate when people go on and on moaning about missing their exes in the FB group I'm in. I really do get tired of all the complaining and negativity sometimes, so that's the last thing i want to do. Evaluating my life with him, I question my judgment, my sanity, my perceptions, all of it, that I was living so closely with someone capable of doing this. And even as I get my head around his rejection of me, ILYBNILWY or whatever, how on earth can he sit there so happy even tho he has not seen his kids for 2 weeks, my d won't speak to him or reply to any texts, my son looked terribly sad in the last photo I sent and I told him our 11 year old d is depressed. he knows this. And yet, he seems so solid and committed to his new reality. It's the determination to do this, in spite of the cost to them, in spite of the enormous cost to him really of losing his family, that hurts my heart to see. Because only a monster would see this tradeoff as an upgrade.

And yes, I understand that in MLC they are not normal, logical humans. I don't believe he is strictly sane. But he is also not criminally insane. He is just basically, I think if I had to articulate it,  selfish to the point of evil.

My friend Amy died the day before Thanksgiving. She'd been sick for 5 years - she was diagnosed at Stage IV and she'd managed to stay longer than anyone thought she could - but it was still painful. She had the most beautiful faith - she wrote a book called 'The Brave In Between - Notes from the Last Room' and it's WONDERFUL. I highly recommend if you have a faith.

What I'm finding is that emotionally painful things all hit harder now and it makes the stuff with him hit harder too. Like my skin got so much thinner or my baseline of resilience is depleted. I had an elective surgery Jan 2nd planned but have postponed so I can go to her memorial. It will give me a shorter recovery time but I need to see this through. Fortunately it's in San Diego so it's not too much of a trek, and our mutual friend (we were three college roommates - yes we had THREE of us in one small dorm room!!!) is flying out and I will get to attend with her. It will be good to grieve with her, since most of the time we were the three of us together.

My sister comes for Xmas Dec 20th and is staying thru New Year. I have not invited my stbx to come and he is not pushing that. The kids will struggle without him (as I will if I'm completely honest) first Xmas in 15 years not together - but it's for the best. He is not who we miss. That guy is not there in that body. And that is by far the hardest thing to understand in all of this.

[Flummoxed]

Amazinglove, I’m so incredibly sorry for your loss. I’m glad you’ll be able to attend her memorial with your mutual friend; loving company during these times makes all the difference.

Also sending hugs- seeing your MLCer “happy”… there are no words. Logically, I try to remember that they do not have the capacity to feel true happiness right now. They can feel the high of their drug of choice, but true happiness while in the midst of deep depression? Not so much. That being said, it doesn’t make the betrayal and unbelievable selfishness any easier to swallow.

It’s great to hear your sister is coming in for the holidays! Do you have any plans in the works? In the midst of all the juggling at home, are you getting any time to tend to yourself and your well-being?  Sometimes, it feels like we need a crowbar to peel our eyes away from the chaos of MLCer destruction, but I truly believe we have our LBS journey to tend to as well. Don’t forget to spend some of your limited time on you, not just in terms of healing but in adding little moments of joy to your day.

[amazinglove]

Thank you for that Flummoxed. It helps to read that. I am working on carving out space for me, long walks, baths, and I need a massage, maybe a facial. I will also start finding time for more reading/meditation or prayer. even stretching. I need all of it. I am really enjoying my kids a lot. And I had wonderful family here- my fave cousin and her great husband from Ohio-  for Thanksgiving - it was WONDERFUL and a huge boost for all of us.

One note here - something that happened over Thanksgiving that was notable for me - my son, who is 7, has so far not been able to learn to ride a bike. My h, when he was here, was going to take him to practice his bike and my son cried bc he did not want to go. I think he did not want to fail in front of him. But my cousin's h, a v chilled out engineer type with three adult kids he's taught to ride a bike, took him down to the school and guess what? my son learned! he actually did it! He is so so proud. He has barely gotten off his bike since.  I sent to my stbx, a video of my son riding with my cousin's h in the video having taught him, and my stbx was seemingly thrilled. He wrote back I'm so proud of him!! etc etc. He left him a voice note saying that (he did not call). And yet, another kids' dad taught his son to ride a bike?! How does that not connect with him at all? My cousin's h said that if another man had taught his kid to ride a bike he prob would have vomited from stress. Mine was, Im' fairly sure, in a hotel or traveling so he couldn't call on camera. he didn't even call kids on Thanksgiving, I hate this for them even more than me. (if that isn't already obvs)

[LBSinUSA]

Reading on your story, Im sorry your going through this.  As someone alluded to above, it seems to me like when in the throes of MLC, the MLCer is not "happy" really.  Its just a dopamine hit similar to an addiction.  And in that sense I suppose we should feel sorry for them as we would for addicts.  I try in a way to practice this myself but admittedly I fail. 

Youre right that as a man/father I cant imagine missing out on teaching my son to ride a bike or a million other things.  Playing catch, looking at the stars, etc, the list goes on.  Those are the moments I tend to think that when I go to meet my maker, I will look back on and remember the most fondly.  If your STBXH cant see that then what a loss for him.  And frankly what a fool. 

[Treasur]

Well done to your boy! Hurrah! And a hurrah for the chap who helped him feel safe and brave enough to do it! Nice for you to be reminded too, as LBS said above, that not all men are like your h is now.

And of course life will naturally bring more of these triumphs and one-off moments that your stbxw won’t be there to see or share. Bc that’s how the real treasures of life unfold, isn’t it?

I found myself wondering why you sent a video of it. Did your son ask you to? Or if it was your choice, do you know why? And what did you or your boy gain from doing so?

I ask bc I wrote on someone else’s thread that it takes a while to unpick the old We habits into new We and Me ones, particularly if you have kids I suspect. And bc it jarred with me slightly….isn’t it somehow normalising his kind of virtual remote fatherhood as ok, when in reality it’s just the practical consequence of a father who chooses to live a new life elsewhere? I bet lots of LBS dads don’t get those videos from their MLC exes and they are not separated from time with their children by choice.

Not the end of the world, of course, no biggie compared to the importance of the moment for your boy, but it might be an opportunity to muse on those future We/Me lines?……

[amazinglove]

Good question. And I do want to carefully consider. Going forward I mean. 
In this instance as soon as I got there and started video taping the first thing he said to me was “send it to daddy”

[Trustandlove]

AM, I did the same for a long time.  And yes, there was always the dim hope that he would see things like that and that it would jog something in him, something that would want us.  It never did, and I did stop doing that after a while (about 3 years in my case....), but at least I could never be accused of withholding anything.   My children appreciate that.

Don't be hard on yourself -- all this takes so much time, none of us are perfect, and of course we look back and think that we could/should have done things differently.  We're human, and I very much agree with what treasur said on I think another thread about expecting someone to behave rationally when they have shown us they don't.  It takes a long time for our brains to process that, and for us to adjust our expectations and behaviour to the new reality, one which we can't get our heads round. 

I remember the first time I didn't send something, didn't do something; it felt wrong.  But I did realise that I was doing it to have contact.  Even years later, when he would come forward for a bit, I again sent something when there was an opportunity.  The kinds of things parents would normally share.  And I learned not to have any expectations; eventually I stopped because I realised I was giving him things to show his friends to indicate that he was a good father, which he most certainly wasn't.  But it's not a quick and simple process.

You are doing wonderfully, keep hold of the good things. 

[KayDee]

I'm sorry for your loss AL and I really get what you mean about how hard these things hit when you are already in grief. Your friend sounds an inspiration, and it must have been wonderful to have her in your life.

Re the Happy Sweater Unreality Show - I deeply suspect it was a broadcast for one, and perhaps next time you can skip being in the audience. Go back to flitting around in the background with your gorgeous hair, and engage less with him and his new wardrobe. On a (more) serious note, if his happy is the kind that is built on being an underemployed toyboy who abandoned his family to achieve his bliss, then he's not a man you have anything in common with at the moment, is he? And anyway, happiness is a fleeting emotion. Living instep with our values, finding meaning in what we do, and what we mean to others, that is long term. That's having integrity and it takes courage. The crisis person, the type that is a people-pleaser, has spent most of their life putting on a front to avoid conflict. My H is a classic example, and although the lid blew off at BD, I can only imagine this 'everything is fine' mode is so ingrained as a defense against conflict that he is still doing it now. So if they can appear happy (enough) prior to BD, they sure as heck can still put on that front now. I think it easier, 'safer' for them to go along with things and it's a kind of cowardice to my mind.

[Treasur]

And a PS from me
I am so very sorry for your loss of what sounds like a splendid woman and friend lost too young.

I nodded to myself about what you said about feeling as if your skin is thin or your normal resilience somehow less. It felt that way for me too…tbh it makes sense doesn’t it? Like trying to run a marathon after just recovering from flu. Your emotional skin probably IS thinner….such an important loss would still have hurt of course……but we are a bit raw for a while, I think, like a bird with few feathers perhaps…..all the more reason to be kind and gentle with yourself, and count every small blessing. Pretty much probably what Amy would have said to you….so, on a tough day, remind yourself to treat you like Amy would treat you as her dear dear friend x

[xyzcf]

Good question. And I do want to carefully consider. Going forward I mean.
In this instance as soon as I got there and started video taping the first thing he said to me was “send it to daddy”

He is still the father of your children. All the suggestions of what sending him a video might or might not mean are really only guesses...to not communicate with him about his children in my opinion seems punitive and mean......and doesn't give our children a very good example of how to treat people.

He doesn't want to be married to you any more...or you don't want to be married to him anymore....doesn't mean that he doesn't want to know about his children and what they are doing...doesn't even mean he doesn't love you...as he and many other MLCers have told the LBSer.

Whatever he is doing in his life, with who ever, no longer needs to have an impact on your life. We step away, we build a life without them in it.

Our kids suffer and as their parent, we do get to help them to have some kind of relationship with their absent parent.

What is best for your children, ultimately and how can you minimize the damage that divorce causes for children?

If sending an update or a photo or video is a way of having some contact with them, so be it.

Your son is very young, he's not able to send his own video to his dad perhaps or even express to his dad his thoughts and feelings. He doesn't understand what has happened to his family, it's very confusing to him and he's proud that he was able to ride a bike.

There is no need to analyze it to death and no need to withhold sharing information, and sometimes even family time....the end result will be well worth it as the children are considered first in making things simple and as pleasant as possible.

Our feelings need to be considered but it is possible to have a relationship with our spouse and by our own healing, find peace in what has happened.