[offmyrocker]

I guess my thought on it would be that my h had issues from his childhood. A part of him never learned how to communicate properly. I feel that when he started the MLC, these were the only tools that he knew. And MLC exasterbated them for a few years before BD. Has he always been passive aggressive? Yes. I married him with this personality. I think when they start to come out of the fog some and start to realize that there is a problem with themselves... There is a desire to fix the problem within themselves... This is where my h is. He is now going to therapy on his own and is learning that this is one of his issues. Will he ever be an open book and communicate the way that i would like him to? Probably not. But i do think it can be much better. And with the knowledge that i have learned about passive aggressiveness... I can now figure out when this might be occurring... This article opened my eyes to issues that were already part of our marriage. I think the article could have talked about the extreme case... And that would very much feel like the extreme that our spouses are are at this moment... But they are still in a crisis. So i don't think it should apply. The article isn't about MLC or someone who is passive aggressive while in MLC. Its about the coping skills that they have used all their lives. But im willing to guess that most of our MLCers didn't display the extreme in most of our marriages... Which leads me to believe that when they finally exit MLC... They won't be in the extreme camp either.

OMR

[Dandy Lion]

My H was PA, I know this, was dealing with this before BD.  Hope one day that he will receive the help he needs to overcome and understand his behavior.   Lots of hopes here!

[Stillpraying]

Great article.  Explains quite a bit about my relationship too.
Very similar script again.

[magpie]

Wondering what to make of this ......

http://www.andrewgmarshall.com/2012/04/14/ask-andrew-what-can-be-bring-a-man-out-of-a-mid-life-crisis/

He seems to put a lot of emphasis on the LBS's anger and behaviour and suggests that she can change his behaviour by changing hers. Personally I think this is an over-simplified view and although he maybe does make some valid points about seeing things from each other's perspectives, this cannot be achieved if the MLC'r is unable to deal with or face up to his own issues.

[hobo1]

There is some valid points here.  I am also like that wife who wrote in.  I've also read many MLCers are ones who are not as 'strong' as the LBSer.  I am typically 'principled' and I am one who takes control.  If my ex was more assertive, I dont believe we would have the problems.  Not sure if anything that could have been done about MLC, but her resentment for me is related to my being too in control.

Perhaps now is where she is finally in control.

[Dontgiveup]

There probably are some valid points that can be taken from this....but.....my input would be to keep in mind that it looks like this may be from a marriage counselor.  I will list several bits of information below that may be helpful to consider.

Do we have influence on our MLCer?  I have linked RCR's blog called "Influence: Making A Difference" below.  One of my takeaways from this blog has been that one of our biggest influences, which also helps us work on our Self, is reacting vs. responding.

http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=360


Like many LBS, I also read a few marriage help books.  During our very brief time in counseling, our counselor used Gottman's materials.  Soon thereafter, I stopped reading them because I began to realize my MLCer had no willingness to work on the marriage.  Here's part of RCR's blog called "MLCers Meet Marital Warning Signs" that I found to be very accurate.

Those books are about how to do something before the situation reaches where you are now—prevention and damage control, but those books are directed toward marital problems, not the problems of a midlife crisis. Reading them can be a waste of time for many in the midst of MLC because since your MLCer will not respond to many of the techniques and efforts, you run the risk of using what you read to interpret that your situation is hopeless.


Here's a piece from Conway's site that I think is helpful to keep in mind
A single event is not usually going to "change" their heart. It takes a lot of large and small things at the right times when God knows their hearts are at the point where they are READY to move forward. Until then they will remain in that place of indecision, selfishness and confusion.

And here are some pieces from RCR.  I think she does a great job in these pieces of touching on the regression to an earlier age, the experimentation of identity, and Liminality.......all of which can help us understand that MLC Takes Time and is a process.
This is how MLCers are. They are experimenting with a new identity. They want to be that person they used to dream about; the fun guy, Peter Pan who doesn’t age is successful with women, successful socially and successful professionally. He wants to be that guy. And that guy is either who he used to be when he was young—the popular jock or the one he admired and wanted to be.
MLCers are tired of accommodating their Self and their public personae to what other people want. But when you experiment with something, you tend to go beyond and take it to obsessive levels.
He’s regressed to adolescence when he experimented with various identities. But remember none are real yet, though all contain bits of validity because they are pieces of him. Those pieces are often the bits and pieces he is rediscovering from his Shadow. When he gets to Liminality he will sort through them and decide which ones to keep.

And what you see of those pieces may be negative, but that doesn’t mean pieces of the pieces are worthy of keeping. Monster was awful, but Monster was confident and knew what it wanted and was not afraid to speak its mind. Those are positive attributes when channeled appropriately.

You husband is in there and he’s intact, but he needs to go through this to discover those other bits of his Self and then he needs to go through Liminality to integrate the pieces he wants to keep.

[Reinventing]

Yes, I am hesitant about this as well. The largest part of the answer to the woman was about having sex more often with her H when he's not even available. I agree that it looks more like marriage counseling, although with the knowledge that we have, the part of trying to envision what it's like to be in the MLCer's shoes is helpful. When we realize they are seriously depressed, running from their depression and have to go through this themselves, it can help us realize what is going on and drive our actions. That kernel of being in the others' shoes is helpful, but only in the context of understanding what MLC is, which the article doesn't appear to.

[Rollercoasterider]

Well, it was marriage counselinog in a way...Andrew Marshall is a marriage counselor.
Reading your initiall posts, I thought I might agree with you guys.
But no, not in this particular situation.

The truth is, as far as I can see, he wanted yet again to take the easy road, but unfortunately I was tied into that particular situation and I don’t take the easy road, I take the “right” road.

I’m picturing you delivering this letter with your hands on your hips, your voice is really angry and from time to time, you’re shouting and you’re wagging your finger.

We only have the wife's words and she gives very little in the way of MLC behaviors in her husband. He may or may not be MLC, but I don't see it in what she has shown in her letter.
She is bossy and demanding and her way is right, other ways are wrong. That is a serious flaw on her part--a marriage destroying flaw because it has a lot of actions and consequences that go with it.
She makes excuses. Her explanation for why their sex life was diminished was valid, but it was pure excuse rather than a validation that it was something they needed to resolve--basically that's the way it was going to be while the situation at home was like that--kids at home. She did not say that, but that by only explaining without acknowledging it needed to change and validating his feelings, that was the implication.
Whether he is an MLCer or not, I see the problems as deeper--at least regarding her part.
I completely agree with Andrew's finger wagging vision. She is a pursuing S-Mother and as Dr. Phil might say, she couldn't be driving him away better if she were chasing him with a stick.

and instead of trying to push down or dismiss his unhappiness as a mid-life crisis (and belittling it further as a cliché one)

Another good point. I think that for this wife, MLC is a convenient excuse that is allowing her to avoid her own mirror-work.

[Dontgiveup]

Ooops.....I should probably clarify.....my post wasn't about the situation in the article.  My post was about looking at whether the LBS can change the behavior of an MLCer in a true MLC situation.

[Thundarr]

For my part, I think this guy is spot on about what he writes and I think MWD would agree.  I can relate to the woman as my W has mentioned me being self-righteous and angry (as have many here).  Perhaps we do have to own our part in causing this.  My W is now surrounding herself with people who see her as an intellectual and is pushing herself to complete her degree. Perhaps this really is a reaction to me. What if deep down she DOES want us to work out and I unknowingly prevent it? 

Lots of thinking to do......