[LKK]

A good therapist never tells the client what to do. My IC therapist helped me with communication, for example if I wanted to say something to my wife, she would help me phrase the question. However, she never told me what to do with my relationship. Only that when I reached the point that I was done, then I would be done.

She exited me from therapy saying that the problem is no longer with me. That the work we set out to do had been accomplished.

If anyone who has a therapist that insists on telling you the solution to your problem, then they are shortcutting the entire process of being a catalyst of enabling the patient to identify the issues and then come up with their own solutions to the problem that they can live with.

Just my two cents...

Add my 2 cents as well to yours... I am kind of new to this mess but not new to therapy and marriage counseling.  I've argued no end to get my therapist to tell me what to do and help me make a decision and he won't.  After nagging he may give me his best opinion from exhaustion, or to get me to focus on another issue,  but his goal is to help me understand my needs, verabalize them and work with the people in my life to achieve what I need, which is understood the needs change and evolve as life situations increase or decrease in stress or happiness, whether marriage, work, other family.  Meaning, his goal  is to teach me to adapt, not regress to past destructive stress inducing behaviors and focus on my reaction as that is the only thing I can control.  Let's face it, who makes any rational decisions when told what to do, how to do it and if you have a knot of stress in your gut, and who can tell you what to do if the aren't living your life, minute to minute.

[ladybird]

I started seeing a therapist in January about 6 weeks before BD.  H had been threatening to leave for months but after the New Year he warned me that he was moving out soon and I panicked and tried to find a MC who could maybe save our marriage.  I naively thought I could get a quick fix, but instead, I found a therapist who was perfect for me.  She is easy to talk to and down to earth but also very honest with me. She has met my H and believes that he is in MLC and that he is not well.  She believes in marriage and does not push me to file for divorce or to stop talking about my H.  She knows that I need to be able to talk about the craziness and get it all out or I will go crazy myself! 

The other day as I was leaving her office, we were chatting and she said that most of her female patients are there to talk about their relationships while the men are there to talk about themselves!  LOL!

[SpecialK]

I found an excellent theorist last July when I reached rock bottom. I knew I had lots or issues to work on. He helped me face up to things that were holding me back, my beliefs and put them to bed. However when I tried to talk about my ex his reply was always we are here to talk about you not his not his problems.

I talked to a different theorist last week - she told me I needed to put boundaries in place and pug a time limit on it. Not helpful, as my best friend said to me what would be the point. I did find her a bit confusing, she also kept comparing my situation with her own, telling me her husband wouldn't do that and love wasn't enough. I won't be talking to her again

SK x

[StandandDeliver]

SK - extremely unprofessional to discuss her own life with you like that. I had one who did that, she even discussed other people's situations (not using names, but still clients). Awful. See someone else.

[kikki]

I'm with OP and HB; Counseling in MLC does not work. That does not mean I would not make an attempt if an MLCer is willing--often they will quit after a few sessions. As HB said, these may serve to get the MLCer to think and thus they may plant seeds for later processing
The problem is that MLCers are running from their Shadow and counseling is about facing your Shadow. Counselors will encourage discussion of those things they want to forget--keep suppressed or repressed--and those things to which they are not ready to admit.

When an MLCer who is not ready is forced to look in the mirror it does not cause them to acknowledge and accept their Shadow, it causes them to run away with greater determination.That is why I say that though I feel counseling should be  a reconciliation requirement, an LBS may need to wait on the counseling since MLCers may return prematurely and even those who remain at home often return so broken that they are still not yet ready.

I have a question and wonder what the thoughts would be on this.

There seem to be quite a few of us that, in hindsight, recognise that we or our spouses or both, yanked our spouses out of full blown crisis a few years earlier.  Only to be faced with a much more severe crisis this time.

My question is this.  After that first, comparatively minor episode, when they very much wanted to reconnect and be a part of the family - would therapy possibly have been beneficial then in facing their shadows and halting the need for this major crisis now.

I kind of kick myself that I had no idea what we were all dealing with, and had I known, I would have insisted on therapy at the time.  (I know H would have attended, as he was so keen to keep his family back then).

Or ......  would it still have been a waste of time, given the denial in our spouses personalities and their upbringings and their historic ways of doing things?  What does everyone think?

[CrazyStuff]

Kikki, I said pretty much the same thing about 9 months ago as well as whether my husband was in a 2nd crisis or was it a continuation of the first with a break in between for good behaviour.    I also used the words 'I am kicking myself'.    The advice I was given was not to worry too much about this as it is now important to look forward, which is what I have been doing.

With hindsight I think my husband did have long periods of clarity; however, I don't think he was ever really out of crisis.    He certainly could not face anything he did in the first episode.   I guess he was still running away.....

Maybe counselling would help; however, I don't think standard MC or IC could get to the root causes here.   Maybe something like psychotherapy.   Then again, I really don't know.

So back to what I was told.    It doesn't really matter.   We can only deal with where we are today and look forward.

One day maybe there will be answers to help others coming behind us.

In the meantime,  you are doing really well and I like reading your posts.


Crazystuff

[kikki]

Crazystuff
Thanks for your thoughts.  I too think that my H probably was the same - he also found it really difficult to face what he had done in his first crisis but had long periods of 'good behaviour' in between.

Looking back, I think his emotional growth halted about ten years ago.  Hmmm, not good.

I agree - it isn't worth pondering this for ourselves, but I was thinking more of those coming in behind us.
This is getting more and more prevalent, and I kind of feel that we are all 'ahead of our time' in a way.  Quietly battling (in a calm way    )  behind closed doors when society is telling us to do the opposite.  Never an easy thing to do.

Thanks CS, you are also doing really well, and I too love reading your posts
K

[BirdSoul]

H

In the early days of our R when my H told me that his father had run away with a neighbor's wife and abandoned H's mother and H and his siblings, I gently suggested that he might benefit from therapy. He quickly responded that he had "no deep seated emotional issues." Ha! At BD when I asked that we go to MC, he said he would "only be going through the motions" and refused. He did say that he was immediately going into IC. I saw that as a positive at first, since I know he indeed has "deep seated emotional issues." Who doesn't?

It's been 9 mos since BD and he refuses to see me or talk to me (we live quite near each other). His C suggested he send me letters (snail mail). He just announced in his latest letter that he is filing for divorce. His C has a website where she says she helps couples. I even offered to see his C with him. What kind of IC lets an obviously depressed and troubled person divorce their spouse without a conversation? I am appalled! But to be fair, I don't know what he is telling her or what she is saying to him. Divorce, as we are all well aware, is life-changing. Why take that course if you don't have to?

Me

After the shock and trauma of BD I immediately went back to an IC I had seen years ago about some family stuff not involving my H. She has been great for getting me through the PTSD of BD and its aftermath. She (and this site) have helped me find myself again. She knows about my stand but keeps telling me things like "I think you have outgrown him" and "You must face the fact that he is not the person you thought he was" etc., etc. I believe her unstated but rather obvious objectives are 1) to get me to focus on me (great!) and 2) to get me to forget about my H and find someone else (not so great). I really do believe she does not believe he is in MLC and will come out of it, but that this is who he is and I was just mistaken that he was a kind, loving, respectful, and devoted partner. The scary thing I, I am starting to believe that she is right! But I have considered switching therapists. I mean, she says she can't diagnose someone she never met, but then makes all these statements about him. I am very confused as to whether to believe my heart (somewhere deep down in there he still loves me) or my C (he is very, very, troubled and I shouldn't want him).

Birdhouse

[kikki]

 Birdhouse - I'd go with your gut instinct every time ........ Trust that, not your head and what someone else is filling it with 

[Affaircare]

Oh I actually need to point out some MAJOR things. 

When a person goes to counseling, in order for there to be any personal progress they have to actually be there with the intention of facing themselves and doing the work!  A person can absolutely go to therapy and have their behind end in a chair week after week...listen to talk and even talk back...and then go home and do absolutely none of it at home.  Now that is a great big waste of money to pay someone $100 or more to do nothing, but hey!  This way they can tell themselves something like "Well I went to counseling and nothing changed!  It wasn't me--it was YOU!"  So if the intention is not to take personal responsibility and find out what you can do differently ("How can I change me?") then no amount of therapy will amount to a hill of beans!!  You know this person better than anyone on the planet or in the world...and even YOU can not "make" your spouse do anything.  They have to choose to do it!!

Second, when a person is in MLC and they go to a counselor, it may start off with "Well he/she does THIS and he/she does THAT and then I feel THIS and I do THAT...." but if the counselor is worth anything they'll turn the sessions around to have the counsel-lee address what THEY do or say.  But in the meantime, counselors aren't mind readers.  If you had a lady come to you who said her husband was a monster who screamed at her for hours late into the night, and threw things, and stood in the doorway forcing her to not leave -- would you jump to the conclusion he is abusive or maybe agree with her that she needs to leave (for her safety)?  Ah!  But she conveniently forgot to tell you that he screamed at her for hours late into the night the night he found her in bed with another man.  And that when he found them having sex, he threw his wedding band at her.   And that when she packed her things to "run away" he blocked the doorway so she wouldn't leave her family.   So see how what I mean?  Just because a person goes to counseling does not mean that the counselor is a magician and can "see the truth" or can "make the marriage better."  The fact is, your spouse may be bound and determined to avoid themselves and wreck the marriage! 

In summary, in order for counseling to ever be any good, the person going has to have the attitude "What I've been doing hasn't been working and I need to change something about me.  What can I learn and do differently?"  And in this instance that would apply to Christian believers, non-christian, agnostics or anyone.