[LisaLives]

I participated in an extended hijack on another thread where this topic was raised.  I wanted to throw it out for discussion.  On my better days I think I am healthily detached.  I have changed everything about my life as a result of his decisions, I didn't want to, but I had to, and now I have made peace with it and I kind of like it.  I have a good life and good friends and I really am happy most of the time.  I have a strict NC rule and will not allow exH to call or be in the same place as me.  He is allowed to e-mail or text, but I generally do not respond to texts.  But, after being called on it, I realize I am not detached, just avoiding. 

I marvel at standers who can live with their MLC spouse, especially the ones who have an OW.  Are they more successful detaching because they have to live through the pain and agony every day and are unable to avoid?  I wonder if I will ever be able to detach and why can’t I?  And today this was all highlighted for me. 

ExH moved across country to be with OW, but kept a house here so when he comes to visit S13 and S14, he has a place to stay.  Originally he claimed 50/50 custody, one week a month and all holidays.  Well that evolved to one week a month, and the schedule he has given me is about one week every 5-6 weeks.  Whatever, we’ll see how that works out in the long run.  But he is here this week and I am about to come unhinged.  When he moved, I felt like the world was lifted off my shoulders--I truly can't tell you how light I felt.  But he is back and I hate that he is breathing the same air I am and that I might run into him.  He decided he wanted to see my neighbors who have become my best friends, but were never good enough for him when he lived here.  So all week I have known that he was going to be right next door last night with the two people who know me best, know all my secrets and I feel afraid.  I know all the reasons he probably feels he needs to do it--so he can prove he is right, everything he has done is all my fault and everyone else is fine with it, so I should be too.  But last night when I got home, I thought I was going to have a panic attack.  I feel, irrationally that he is not going to rest until he steals everything I have, that it is not enough to abandon me, but he has to take everything—my very heart and soul, or he will never be happy.   

So this morning, I wake up to an e-mail from OW, an automated e-mail that my child support was transferred from their joint account.  I was ready to check into the asylum.  At 18 months post BD, post D, and knowing they are getting married, should I be detached enough that this doesn’t bother me?  Will I ever be?  How does one achieve “detachment?”  If you truly loved can you ever truly detach?  And this is where I get so stuck in his leaving.  MLC or not, he is obviously detached from me, in my mind that means he obviously never loved.  What is the timeline for healing?  I have so many people tell me I need to get on with it, that I should not have a problem being in the same place with him and that I should be having more meaningful interactions “for the sake of the kids.”

And I can’t.  I admit I am avoiding.  In my avoidance I can feel detached, but I truly never want to see or hear from him again, the pain and the betrayal are too much to bear.  How do you really stand through that?  And having processed this for 18 months, I posted in my own thread, that I think perhaps my H is truly a narcissist and it would not be healthy for me to stand because he would continue to rob me for the rest of my life if I let him.  Or maybe it is all just me—that I need to work harder on forgiveness and work through the pain instead of avoiding it. 

But I guess that is not a problem when you are truly a stander.  It is never in your best interest to truly detach, is it?  If your goal is paving the way and R, do you just approach it differently?  Am I in a bad place because I have no hope for R, or because I don’t want R, or am I still really ambivalent and therefore stuck?  Does healthy detachment just come with time and I am just being impatient, or am I doing something wrong?  Bring out the 2X4s, I am ready!     

[Thundarr]

Hey Lisa,

I, for one, did not realize what you were going through and how much pain you were in when you were posting on LG's thread.  I think that would have cleared up alot of the misconceptions, but they seemed to get worked out anyway.  I'm truly sorry for what you are going through and I hope you soon find peace with your sitch whether your H is in town or not.

I had inferred from some of your previous posts that you were not a stander, but now I question that.  You seem to obviously still love him, and I would suspect would be willing to take him back if he wakes up from this.  It's a good thing that he is maintaining an attachment to the kids, even if it's nowhere near 50/50.  I wonder how OW feels during the weeks he is back in town?

You do not appear to be detached, but you're right that it is easier when he's far away and you don't have him in your face or have to fear seeing him.  I feel much better when I know my W is just 40 miles away as I don't have to brace for seeing her.  I hope and pray the day comes soon that I no longer stress over our interactions.

Stay strong, as you and I both know you are.  You have weathered many storms and still have a ways to go, but if you've made it this far you can make it further.  No 2 x 4 coming from here (I don't think I've been granted the authority to use them yet anyway. LOL!!).

[Wed2Him?Whatever.]

Hi Lisa, are you working on yourself any?  You are right you do not sound detached, you sound like you are avoiding.  But why beat yourself up over it?  Who wouldn't want to remove themselves from such heartache?  You've just got to take the focus off of him to put it where it belongs, which is back on you.  I encourage you to visit Charlyne Cares, charlyne.org if you are choosing to stand for your marriage and looking for the strength that'll help.  She has been through it all and has made it her mission to help those of us standing for our marriages, no matter what our individual situations entail.  And I am so glad you've found this forum too because there's a vast wealth of both knowledge and experience here, not to mention comfort and support.  So again, please do not be hard on yourself for trying to spare yourself some of this pain.  You are giving your H and the OW power whenever you think of them over yourself.  Keep the faith, we are here for u!

[Dontgiveup]

"he is obviously detached from me"

I'm not sure I agree that he is detached from you......because of the statement below.

"He decided he wanted to see my neighbors who have become my best friends, but were never good enough for him when he lived here.  So all week I have known that he was going to be right next door last night with the two people who know me best, know all my secrets and I feel afraid."

I see what he did as a form of Monster, which shows a lack of detachment on his part.

There are several things he's doing that indicate he is not totally "sold" on this new life with OW.  He is maintaining a place in your city in which to stay.  He took care of himself first during the hurricane on the East Coast by coming back to where it seems like he felt more "safe".

"I need to work harder on forgiveness and work through the pain instead of avoiding it."

I think there is an element of truth to this.

I also believe, though, that you do have some hope.  His behavior shows a lot of confusion and cycling.....which of course sends mixed messages to the LBS.

[growing every day]

I'm at lunch and I can only post a quickie here.... I am an avoider. LG's thread really brought that to light for me. I'll comment more as I sent H an email that I had been avoiding doing. No response ( none expected, so we're all good there OP!)  But what I did I did so that I could get out of my comfort zone of what I thought was detachment.... but in reality was avoidance.

LL, I'd also like to add that you have been there for me plenty of times. I'd love to talk. I can PM you my number if you'd like. I'm sorry you are feeling the pain. I know I would have anxiety if H said he was coming home.... clearly I'm an avoider!

Great topic!!

[Synicca]

Lisa,

just like Thundarr, I too see that you have been in alot of pain...no doubt.

But, I also see that this has opened you up for alot of soul searching into what you truly want for yourself.
I see someone that is trying to be STRONG, maybe for the outside world?? No need to do that here.

and I do SEE that whether you realise it or not, your Standing.

I remember back in the begining, when I was all over the map with my emotions here and I wanted ALL the answers.
as we all do when we first get hit with this horrible thing. I also remember thinking, HOW canone detach 100%
when you STILL love your spouse. I fought that one for months, just ask LG..LOL!!

I can tell you for me, That it isnt easy dealing with a live-in MLCer with an OW. 
But, I learned how to detach from things that happened at the MOMENT...but truly, I was a wreck most of the time.
I was detached from their drama, and I got to SEE his addiction to her plain and simple, which also helped me
better understand that it wasn't that they really "loved" eachother. It was/is a very sick sick R that I want nothing
to do with. I actually reached a point where I pittied my H, rather then feel pissed at him for doing what he was/is
doing. I have been glad that he has been in NY right now....gave me a HUGE break. But It still doesnt take away
ANY of the emotions that I feel about where he is and what he is doing.

I go about my daily life...doing what I do. I dont call him or text him at all. I have remained NC on MY PART.
He is the one that contacts me...BUT, I never ignore his texts or calls. I want him to know I am still here.
But the main reason I have NC with HIM, is because it WILL no doubt cause drama for me if his crazy OW
hears about it and I want none of her drama in my life and believe me....she has no problems telling ME
how to live MY life.

SO I guess, Your right...I have not completely detached, I dont think that IS possible with a live in MLCer.
How can you? but I learned how to NOT let things affect me the way they used too...which makes life a whole
lot easier.

Dont know if I addressed the thread tittle...LOL! but thats my take on my sitch.

[Hope for Zen]

I do think detachment and avoidence get mixed up a lot, but I also think they are related.  MY H is never far & OW seems to like to find ways to get in my face.  I felt like I had to sink or swim since I never really got away from H.  The hits just kept commin'. 

Early on I simply HAD to find ways to avoid H.  I have a young child and H stays involved with her, so it was never completely dark, but I did go as dim as possible for a while.  It was not the same as where I am now, but it was one of the things that let me get to this point.  I had to have some sort of break in order to come to terms with my new reality.  After that I was able to start detaching.  Once it started, life really started to get better though. 

I really think it is OK to avoid.  Sometimes we need a break, and that is fine.  The real break we need lies in detachment though, so it is worth continuing to work to get there.  I would guess that you are on the road to detaching.  Don't beat yourself up over not being there yet.

((hugs))
- Zen

[OldPilot]

Well I have a few comments,

You do not avoid this #1, you can run away and hide but it will come back and hunt you down.

I think you have commented in the past that you are not STANDING.
So I guess my question is then you are running away from the pain?
I make no judgement about the not standing but I do about the running away from the pain.

Your husband coming and visiting with the neighbors.
Why do you think he chose them, do you think it was to make contact with you?
Even if it was just to find out how you are doing.
A typical MLC trait, I might add.

I agree with the above advice BTW, you need to keep working on you.

At some point you are going to have to forgive your husband.
I am not saying to be friends with him but to let him go completely.

You both thought that the divorce was going to take away the pain,
it does not work that way.
He is still hiding from it and you are running.

I know detachement works in layers, like peeling an onion.
So maybe you need to peel away a few more layers.

Lisa RCR wrote that you are more than welcome on our board,
and I want to reiterate that statement.

You DO need to STAND - FOR YOU!!!!

[LettingGo]

LisaLives, I just want to say I appreciate your honesty! I hope it means you feel safe enough to reveal yourself here, but I also think it means you are READY to move forward. Moving forward is not moving ON....it's also not limbo.... it's incorporating new things into your life, even if there is a hole where your husband used to be. The hole is still there... you don't have to fill it up.... just let it be there.

We've all been crazed over this..... detachment comes and goes.... avoidance is necessary sometimes... it's not a crime, LOL!! but it might be holding you back from living your life.  Some days you just need a vacay from your sorrow, so you put the sitch in a little box and maybe head out for some retail therapy, or lunch with a friend, or Yoga class or whatever.... sometimes you are too fragile to deal with the negativity a MLCer brings to the table... it's ok to avoid sometimes.

OP is right to question the avoidance of pain, though. No one wants to feel it... your MLCer is DOING these things to himself, but it is HAPPENING to you and your kids.... you can't control it, so avoidance becomes a form of CONTROL. I suggest you think about surrender and acceptance. It takes time to get there... to acceptance, and I take it back all the time... it's not concrete for me, but, SURRENDER is a tool I use when I am overwhelmed, like right now....I HAD to find a higher power to surrender to because I needed HELP in a major way.... when I feel myself OUT OF CONTROL, it is usually because I'm sucked into trying to CONTROL, and that is a minefield of misery right there.... so SURRENDER is a practice.... DETACHMENT comes with surrender. It all starts with one step forward, and I think you are ready..... ready to feel your pain and MOVE THROUGH IT... cuz the only way out of it is THROUGH.

See, the MLCer is running and running to avoid his pain.... and we want to shake them and say "FEEL YOUR PAIN so you can get well!! FEEL IT!! I'm HERE for you!!" but they run from it and make it worse and it never goes away no matter what they do. The LBS does a lot of the same things the MLCer is doing, just in a different way and without the destruction.

I'd like to make a few recommendations for you, and who knows if it will resonate..... one is the book "The Journey from Abandonment to Healing" by Susan Anderson which addresses "Surviving through and recovering from the five stages that accompany the loss of love". It's very clinical, and a tough read for me as it causes me to dig deep and question a lot of my past history.... I have abandonment "issues", LOL!!

I have found the work of Byron Katie to be EASY in concept, though the ideas are not new..... she has many books out, but I recommend you just go to her website www.thework.com and click on the "Doing the Work"... it's a simple worksheet that will help you turn your thinking around in about 2 minutes.... it's a tool I use a lot, and you might like it.

Another book I recommend, if you want to read about a marriage that survived infidelity... written from the viewpoint of the husband AND the wife.... (a couple who divorced, by the way) is "Surprised by Love" by Dr. Jay and Julie Kent-Ferraro. Though they don't identify Dr. Jay as having an MLC, when I read it, it had all the hallmarks of one as far as I'm concerned.... I also felt his attitude throughout their reconciliation and remarriage to be all about HIM still, though he did see what a blessing his wife was... still very SELFISH and I imagine in a couple of years, another layer might be revealed. It is VERY revealing to hear "from the horses mouth" how he felt about his affair partner, and boy was SHE a gem, LOL!! It's juicy reading, and I read it cover to cover on my flight to Dallas from PA....

Don't beat yourself up, and don't worry about standing or not standing. I have NO idea why I'm standing.... I know that I'm surprised I didn't divorce my husband as soon as I found out about OW....REALLY surprised, LOL!!

[Moving Forward]

LL,
I think it's great that you have reached a point where you are questioning your interactions with your exH. I am also divorced from my MLCer and I still have to see him and deal with him because we have two children (S12 & D10).

He is an angry MLcer and just ran from everything and everyone - he has married the OW (an exGF from 27 years ago) and he now lives and works back up in the north of England (she lives and works down south and he was there most of the time between November 2010 until he got a new job in early June). The time he was living away gave me much needed breathing space from him and his antics. BD was on October 1st 2009 so he's moved at breakneck speed to get on with his new life.

I was very worried for a time that I was avoiding dealing with my issues and him. I can only share what I did to help me move towards a good (very good) place. I stopped myself at every interaction with anyone which caused my heart to quicken or my pulse to race and checked in with why I was feeling the way I was, what I was about to do and why.....and whether there was a better course of action for me. I became very aware of me and how I was living my life - didn't want to take anything for granted.

I looked at my life, which had been shattered into a million bits, and picked up each piece and decided whether I wanted this in my 'new life'. I have to say that I had worked out a very good idea of the kind of person I wanted to be in my future (for me and my kids) and I measured everything against that vision of the 'future me.'

I realised that I had lots of things to work through - stuff which went back to my childhood and I had to relearn a load of behaviours which had become part and parcel of me at BD (I admit living with a very angry MLCer when I didn't have a clue about MLC brought out a very combatative side to me) and I needed to jettison those unfavourable bits.

LL, I think there are no shortcuts to building the 'new LL' and change is always hard but I once read it takes 21 days to break a habit and as we have this 'gift of time' it makes sense to invest it wisely in the person who really matters - you!

This LBS Journey which people talk about is a constant work in progress and we have to do something every single day towards working through our issues and becoming the best version of us imaginable.

This is a very thought provoking thread, I've just realised I'm 'avoiding' talking to my exH about a specific issue as I don't want to test my detachment from him with this contentious issue - but I've got to do it......

((hugs))

P
xx