[Affaircare]

I couldn't agree more with "Standing is not STILL."  In my first marriage, my exH is the one who chose to have more than one affair (which I recognize now was MLC), and my exH was the one who moved out for years and would not do the work even to recover himself.  That's because he was "running from" not trying to face it!  My stand was about me, about learning the mistakes I made, about growing myself while he was gone, and about making a stable life for myself and the kids.  I learned I was not tied to him at the hip and that whether I was married or single, I was not enmeshed with someone--I was with myself.  We divorced after 3 years and I just chose not to fight about it (in the sense of being disagreeable).  I put out something fair, he suggested something unrealistic, we agreed to maybe 75% and agreed to let the judge rule on the 2-3 things left...and we were done. 

After the divorce, I didn't rush out and date but I was okay with and ready to accept being single.  I didn't interact with him daily but didn't push him away or act like a jerk.  I decided what I would need to see in order to be interested again.  I looked at what I wanted from a partner in life...and exH was not in any way interested in trying.  So be it.  I still stood for another 2 more years!  Then I met my current husband and that's a forever marriage because I know so much more. 

[Silmarion]

I hope I'm answering the question....

I'm standing...just not by being in the way of the 'other' (whoever they may be!)

Sil x

[LettingGo]

I wanted to check on Syn's thread, and saw that there had been a major hikack.  She says i her thread that she is leaving the community because she does not feel welcome here any longer as a stander, due to the presence of so many people here who have chosen to stand down.

Where did she say anything about people who have chosen to stand down? Check yourself.

I guess it's time for me to be brutally honest with MY feelings here....

When I came to this site, I was allready 4 months post BD, and I was still very much a mess, I found people here that
helped knock some sense into me, by showing ME compassion and understanding for what I was going through. I found
a place that I could be brutally honest with my journey and everything that has been involved in MY life with my MLcer.

I was never afraid to say anything here, I felt SAFE. I have opened up my walls and wrote out my darkest emotions
and secrets because I knew NO ONE would judge me here.

But, in the last few weeks I have noticed a change in "tone" here, I have seen more MAN bashers and "haters" come in
and say " He is an A$$hole" and "you deserve better" The fact of the matter is WE get that IRL and I don't NEED it HERE.

I LOVE my husband, with every ounce of my soul, regardless of the journey he has decided to take for the last year.
I have cycled and pondered my stand, but I have been given the support to continue on by many people here.
but not anymore, I have seen cheering on of "divorcing" and 'not standing" and that bothers me.

I have seen "compassion" for our MLCers diminish and that bothers me. I was raised to have compassion for another
as you can see by my "signature below" I have compassion for everyone here and for their MLCers who ARE HURTING.

The actions our MLCers take hurt us, but it is NOT fully understood exactly what they go through in the midst of this DEEP
depression. I have been there, so I know fully how horrible it is and maybe that is why I can have EMPATHY for what MY
husband is going through, I have seen him sob in my arms and contemplate killing himself, I have watched him
hurt our family and friends beyond belief, but never ONCE have I resented him for any of it.


recently, I read a thread, where a newbie came in and was "hurting" she had just experienced one of the worst things
in her life, and yet, the tone on her thread changed to " You are going to be OK" to " WE DONT CARE ABOUT HIM"
I care about HIM...I care about everyone here. If I had been that woman, I would have turned around and never
came back here after so many were bashing her H. She has probably gotten that in her RL, and doesn't need
man haters HERE!

at that very moment is when I decided, enough is enough  ( for me ) I can no longer read threads and peoples stories
while LBSers BASH another. It is NOT my nature. Ya, we come in here ans say OUR MLCers are A$$holes, but that is OUR
right, Not someone elses...I want people to say " I understand"

I find it sad really, that more and more LBSers are being "cheered" on to Divorce...That is the "tone" I see. And if I am
wrong, then I am sorry. but I believe RCR is trying to bring the divorce rate down, not advocate it??

Everyone has a God given right to DO what they want, a God given right to Stand or NOT to stand. BUT, to advocate
it HERE....is not what I agree with.

Life IS a journey....all of our lives are...from the moment we are born, our journey begins, We all need to learn how to
be compassionate towards others, and have FAITH that our Marriages will pull through this...I WANT that for everyone
but, when you BREED hate....it BREEDS hate. Newbies are desperate for their pain to GO AWAY, We should never
bash them....they NEED time...Time to understand WTH just happened to them, They NEED understanding...someone
to say " I have been there" and "YOU will be OK"

I cannot be a part of something that Breeds Hate, I was not raised that way...and I no longer feel that I as in (myself)
can HELP anyone here, when there is so much HATE.

If I come on this site and the first thing I read is " Your MLCer is an A$$" and I get upset, why would I come back?
I can get enough of that from REAL people in MY LIFE...so why bother?

I am saddened to see this here and that is all I can say.

( This is how I FEEL ) and we all have a God given right to HOW WE FEEL.

Be Blessed.

[LisaLives]

Where did she say anything about people who have chosen to stand down? Check yourself.


LG, I wrote that BEFORE Syn ever posted her why--I apologize that I got it wrong.  But really, there you go again, always presuming the worst of me.  All I tried to do was bring the discussion to its own thread, to be honest, so that I could read it since you both have made it very clear you don't want me on your threads!  I have kept my promise and have stayed away from yours since I told you I would, and I checked Syn's out of mortal curiousity for why there were so many posts.  And it was an intersting discussion that I wanted to read.     

Emerson said "these are the voices we hear in solitude, but they grow faint and inaudible as we enter into the world..."  and he finishes this long thought with a statement that say to speak today what you believe in a big voice and do the same tomorrow, though the two may be different, for "foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."  And to that I would add my sentiment which is to always remember to ASSUME GOOD INTENTIONS.  No one is here with an aim to injure or hurt, though many of us are injured and hurt. 
 
We all have to be brave enough to speak our minds and hearts and know that others will question.  If you really don't want others to question, then perhaps private journaling is better, but I think the reason for having a public forum is so that we can journal and have others question us to see if they might take something from our situations.  We are all different, and yet we are living a shared experience and need support.  Sometimes we get things wrong and sometimes we say things that are taken poorly, but I don't think anyone comes here with an intent to hurt anyone, even MLCers. 

But, sometimes they do act like jerks and sometimes you have to just say it.  I don't think I have ever heard anyone on here advocate or cheer a divorce or relish jeering someone's MLCer.  But, sure most of us are guilty of not holding ours up to the same level you and Syn hold yours, I continue to argue that you raise the bar to an almost olympic standard that most mere mortals could never achieve.  And so from your perch, it is likely you will feel little true support.  I have very little to offer my friends who run marathons, my running is in a totally different league, but I still admire them and cheer them on.  But, when they talk about perhaps giving it up, or slipping down to just 10K status, I admit, I don't push all that hard for them to keep up the marathons, I just don't know how, nor do I truly understand what it takes. 

And so it is with standing, all our stands are different, time will tell who is right or wrong, who wins and who loses, but in the mean time, can't we all just try to get along? ASSUME GOOD INTENTIONS, assume love and support, no matter how you perceive what is said--we are all just trying and sometimes projecting, but does being mean to eachother help anyone?       
 
 

[LettingGo]

But really, there you go again, always presuming the worst of me.  All I tried to do was bring the discussion to its own thread, to be honest, so that I could read it since you both have made it very clear you don't want me on your threads!

Lisa, I'm just stating a fact....and if you wrote it before you read what she wrote, then the onus is really on you!! I do not want to attack you, EVER, especially on your own discussion thread.... but you got your facts wrong. Show me where Synicca said she was leaving the forum because there were "so many people who have chosen to stand down" and where I EVER said I didn't want you reading my thread? How have I made it "very clear"? I said CLEARLY, I am on MY THREAD to JOURNAL MY STORY.... PERIOD. Please ALLOW me to JOURNAL. You, and everyone else can read, disagree, agree, whatever.... I don't want to be TOLD what to do by anyone.... or WARNED repeatedly that I'm doing "it" wrong..... I'm 19 months into this... I don't have all or probably ANY of the answers.... but I sleep, I eat, I GAL, I'm not a NEWBIE. I don't tell others what to do except to BACK OFF on my thread....

Why are you making this PERSONAL... I don't see where you are the center of any controversy here.... Where has anyone named you? People don't do that here.... again, check yourself.

You may not like me, or think you don't like me, or whatever, but I'm available to be your friend if you wanted. Your enemy is NOT me, or Synicca or anyone else here.

But, sometimes they do act like jerks and sometimes you have to just say it.

They act like jerks because THEY CAN'T HELP IT!! WE all vent about it... no big deal!! But they are SICK, and I don't kick a man when he's down.... (well, occasionally, but I try to do better...) but I've been here since nearly the beginning.... I know what I'm talking about!! The TONE is way different, and not in a good way....

I continue to argue that you raise the bar to an almost olympic standard that most mere mortals could never achieve.

What do you think I'm getting out of this? An EGO stroke? Do you think I make this sh** up? I just DO WHAT I DO..... I don't ask or expect anyone to follow my lead... in fact, I tell most people to DO NOT DO WHAT I DO!! I follow VERY STRICT guidance.... and I make NO APOLOGIES.... I am VERY strong in MY convictions, but I sure didn't start out that way.... see, I remember what it was like to be NEW at this.... it frikkin' SUCKS!! I've dodged MANY bullets... believe me, if my husband didn't have a vasectomy, OW would have already had their baby!! I count my blessings every day!

I've made my points very clear, and my intention is ONLY to be clear and factual... and I don't want to further hijack your thread, number one, cuz it's YOURS.... and you get to have it. I'm not interested in having a discussion like this on our public forum any further... I think there is a huge disconnect going on and I've tried to explain with my best intentions and efforts, but to no avail....

I would love to hear from you privately, if you want to PM me.... any gripes, complaints, questions or clarifications you might want.... I'm very open... but I leave the forum for less personal discourse..... just know I will be truthful, but with love. LG

[Anjae]

LG, syn,. Lisa, common, we all already have our hand full with our MLCer, our families, jobs and ourselves. There is already enough strife in ours lives.

The forum is a place for us to share, find help and support. And that us includes everybody.

Like syn, I too notice a harder tone regarding the MLCers. That does not please me. Nor being rude to other LBS. Not my kind of thing.

Yes, I think RCR set up this site to help bring the divorce rate down but she also says:
“Stander
A person who seeks to remain married while his or her spouse is seeking to escape the marriage; legal actions may or may not have been initiated or finalized. Some are Standers by action, while others are strict Standers in philosophy, believing divorce is an immoral action.
You may be a strict Stander, or you may choose to Stand without a strict aversion to divorce, or you may simply be uncertain whether your relationship is worth a Stand. It is for each individual to choose whether to Stand, or whether to step down. Some Standers are for Life, continuing to Stand knowing restoration of their marriages is unlikely. They are the Covenant Keepers, honouring their vows even as their spouse may marry another. Regardless of your beliefs and goals, you are welcome. “
So, we are all welcome here.

As for cheering divorce, as said before, I don’t thing that is the case. However, when a childless, quite young woman like WarriorPriestess , that is being on this for 3,5 years, I think we must tell her how hard this is and ask her if she is certain she wants to remain in such relationship.

[Freddygone]

I know us guys are outnumbered on this forum and we do get a bashing in our normal lives, but I don't think any comments were malicious really. Someone said we are all hurting, which is true.
Part of detaching is a way to ease that pain (not that it works completely).
The fact that we are on this site indicates that we still have strong positive feelings for our partners.
We should not take what other say as a primary standard just because they set up the site either. each case is different.
With regards to divorce, sometimes we may find ourselves pushed into it. I did not want to go that route but my wife was dominated by OM and she filed. My only way to stop it was to contest her petition and counter file. Then stand.
You can even stand at that point and stop things sliding out of control.
This is why I say that the definition of standing is not so pure. If that was the case then I would be considered to have failed and I don't think so.
My primary objective is stability for my family and happiness of my wife. Show me a MLC who is happy and I will show you someone not in MLC.
They need compassion, sometimes from a long distance, and boundaries. Sometimes we need to be a long way off to allow MLC to progress because we , like it or not, can make it worse.
People who have been in this process for 2,3 or more years are not here for sport, they are here because they have unconditional love for someone who has lost their way.
It is better that we vent any anger and frustration here than at our poor partners. They are poor frightened children.
We are much stronger than them or it would be us in MLC. Maybe we are too?
Don't worry so much, this is life, we learn something new every day.

[LettingGo]

Nicely said, Freddy.....

[Anjae]

Great wise words, Freddy.

People who have been in this process for 2,3 or more years are not here for sport, they are here because they have unconditional love for someone who has lost their way.

So true, so true.

[BrandNew]

I have perceived the occasions of supporting divorce here as a means to the LBS's journey of letting go and detachment.   I have been here a while.  There are alot of issues surrounding MLCers and their LBSs that are complicated.  Interesting that MLCers are often dependent, conflict avoidant, and passive aggressive.  Interesting that LBSs here are often codependent, fixers, managers, s-mothers.  I am not comfortable with the "poor lost MLCer" perceptions.  We are lost too!  There is a mutual dynamic in many of our relationships.  We are on our own journey through the tunnel.  I love HB's "becoming opposite," etc.  Standing for the sake of standing can be a form of "martyrdom, nurturing, and compassion" that codependents like to call themselves instead of codependent.  I am not saying every stander is codependent, but there are trends in relationship dynamics here.  Divorce can be a standing action.  How can you claim detachment, letting go, and GAL when you steadfastly refuse to D despite the poor treatment by the MLCer?  They know you aren't really detached.   There is a contradiction here between detaching and standing.  I do wish that standing simply meant detachment, moving on with your life (including D and dating) and then if the MLCer ever clears the tunnel and wants to reconcile, the LBS addresses it then.  Resisting divorce when your spouse is cheating and leaves you doesn't feel like detachment.  I have a feeling some day that RCR will redefine Standing as simply an understanding of the MLC process, detaching and focusing on our own lives, and being open to reconciliation if the time ever comes (because we do understand the journey).  I don't believe trying to avoid D will be included in the evolution of Standing, although many may still choose not to D.  Thanks for letting me go on - I appreciate that we are all welcome here.  I have always felt comfortable with my feelings due to RCR's openness to our differences.