[NewBeginnings]

Sorry for the hijack but I just spoke to my H for the first time in over a month about our son and OW and court.   As usual he started the blame game.  As you all know, it was brought up in court about his OW, that she lost custody of her son when he was young.  She also spent a day in jail for writing bad checks.  Well the court papers came last week and they state no third party will be allowed at my H's house when our S is there with him.  Well my H is furious.  He said that my Atty, the courts and myself are questioning his integrity by doing this and he will not put up with it. He said no one is going to tell him what to do.   He said I would never put my S in danger.  I am a good father.  I told him if OW didn't have all these issues there wouldn't be a problem.  He then said something shocking to me, he said to me, if you(me) were with a guy that was in jail or even if he did drugs, I would allow our S to be around him because I know you are a great mother and if you liked this guy, then I would be fine with it!
WTF??  That statement doesn't even sound normal to me.   He then told me he wants me to be happy and wishes I would find someone else.  He said OW is a good person, a great mother.  He has nothing but good things to say about her.  I keep reading these relationships are bad too but in talking to my H, he's as happy as can be with her.  Does nothing but brag about her even with all the known bad things about her.   He was literally screaming at me and I was setting him straight on some things he was saying.  He then said, this is why we will never be together again because we don't agree on things.  What couple does agree on everything?  He is a conflict avoider and doesn't like any argueing what so ever.      So I have to think that not all these relationships are bad.  They have been together for just over a year and living together since March 1st of this year, plus she was staying at our apt. with him since Dec..  I don't know, I am just so confused.  I try not to think about them like we are supposed to, I try and believe what I read on here about these relationships, but I just don't see their relationship as being bad.  I think they are happy.

NB

[crazyforhim]

Oh NB- I am so there with you on that one...but the one thing that can reassure me is that our H's aren't themselves right now and really do I want to be with "this person" well the answer is "NO" I want to be with my H.

Really let OW have him in this state of mind- cause when I think about it I don't want him like this.

Limitless- no I really don't want to know what is going on every minute, but a hint of how bad it is would be great in my mind...LOL! It just gives me a sense of "phew" it really isn't as good as I think. Then I would feel more relaxed and less stressed and more empowered.

Thanks so much for the advice

I guess another thing that bothers me is the R she is creating with my kids- that's something else that I can't get my head around. If that R is so bad then why on earth would you want your kids to be a part of that.

Those are my worries and those are also my hurdles which I will get over and be better bc of all this.

[limitless]

NB,
It is a FANTASY!

After all that appears to be true about this OW - your H tells you that she is okay and he loves her?
You are listening to the words of a crazy person.

It would be okay for you to have a drug addict and felon in the same house as you and your Son - because he knows you to be a good mother and trusts you???  That is crazy stuff!

He's in Replay.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  He is of no importance.  He is delusional.  And, he is trying too hard to convince you (and himself) that this relationship his is in is a GOOD one.

Stop talking to him about it (i understand that the court decision just was given and this is why you were discussing it).  He will continue to defend her to you.  That doesn't mean they are happy or that the relationship will last.

It is a relationship built on fantasy.......
Leave him to his fantasy.

Focus on protecting your Son.

Don't believe what your MLCer is telling you.

Drug addicts will also tell you about how great that cocaine makes them feel.  Doesn't mean that it is healthy...doesn't mean that it is good for them...it just means that they are addicted.  The crash is coming.

Hugs,

L

[CrazyStuff]

New Beginnings,
My h. lives with OW & her 2 children and has done now for a year.   I am not sure how long the affair was going on before BD - not long I believe.   Anyway, it is really only at BD that an affair relationship becomes 'real' (or the running away, hiding or whatever else a MLCer does in an attempt to get away from their problems & feelings).    Since BD for you was 'only' February this year your husband is likely still in the thralls of infatuation or infatuation has subsided and he is desperately trying to convince himself and everyone else that he has done the right thing.

I know my h. is not happy in the true sense of the word.   It is written all over his face and in the isolated life he lives now. 

But it is still too early in his crisis for him to do anything about it.     So I leave him to it and get on with my own life.

Your husband is not happy and it is much too early for him to do anything about it. 

Please read the articles and the blogs as you need to accept that this will take time, a lot of time, and then some more.

And your husband is definitely not in love nor happy - trust me on this.

The Self Focus articles will help you look after the most important person now, which is YOU, so please read them over & over again.



CrazyStuff

[NewBeginnings]

Crazystuff ~ I think you are right when you say he is trying to convince himself and everyone he made the right decision.
So now I wonder, if he is out to prove that, will he ever leave her?

Limitless ~ Thank you for setting me straight.  He was crazy on the phone, screaming at me.  What is setting him off is
the fact the courts and me are telling him who he can and cannot have at his house when our S is there.  He is furious.
I do have to say that I found his comment really funny and off the wall, that if I had a boyfriend and he was a drug addict and had been in jail, that he would be ok with that because I liked the guy.    That right there told me he is not in his right mind.  He also called me a b*tch and said everyone said so.  I said, really, like who, your mother.  He has no one else to talk to about any of this except OW and his mother.  Now I am thinking that he and OW had a huge fight last night because my H had to tell her to leave this weekend and every other weekend so our S could go there.  I think she told him no way because during our conversation he said he would take our S to Disney and Universal and not to his house, ever.
     Now that I think about it, I think she is putting pressure on him and she is the one calling me a B*tch.  I said to H, I am not a b*tch.  I am a very kind and giving person and your mother and sister and her family know that.  I was his sisters kids favorite Aunt.  I think he is running scared right now.  I am just going to let him be.  I just wish he wouldn't say
such mean and hurtful things to me. 

crazyforhim ~ I agree, I would just like a little hint of truth as to what their relationship really is.  Sorry, I know I shouldn't
care but I do and I wouldn't think it would be normal not to wonder.   After all, they are our H's and we were with them
for many years and we love them.  We never saw this coming.  We can't shut our love off like a light switch. 

Hugs to All
NB

[crazyforhim]

These OW's- boy do they ever know how to swoop in and ruin lives. I know our H's aren't any better but
really I can't say enough about everyone on here who lends an ear and cares so much...I absolutely don't know what I would have done to keep my sanity otherwise...

[CrazyStuff]

Crazyfm,

I have just thought of something that I know has made a difference in my case .   The courts were not involved so I resorted to using information from a counsellor to stop h. pushing for S15 to spend time at his house along with OW & her 2 children.   The key is to make it impersonal and not about you. 

If you get a chance, you need to find a way of letting your husband know that the decision to protect your son was one taken by the courts after consideration of the facts and that although you believe it is the right decision  you do not believe it is personal, i.e., it is not about you, nor your husband.   It is only about the welfare of your son.      Tell your h. that you know that he is a good dad and that you trust him to do the right thing for your son, which for now includes abiding by this court order.     

Do not argue with him about it nor get emotional.   Simply make it a factual statement the next time he brings it up and then leave it. 

He will be blaming you and protecting OW, yet sometimes such truth darts do find their way through the fog.   

I wish there was a law to prevent children being introduced to affair partners everywhere.

CrazyStuff

[Anjae]

NW, It is a fantasy. Agree with Crazy, you need to let your husband know it was a court decision based on facts, nothing to do with him or you, even if you agree with the court decision.

Don't worry with him blamming you. They do that all the time. We get the blame for their poor choices. See, we were not good enough, rich enough, did not work or looked after them enough, they were never happy with us, so, they choose a fantastic person.  It is there problem if the fantastic person brings them troubles. Let them have it. 

All this stories make me think, some OW/OM had troubles in theirs past, including with court, jail, police but by the end of the crises so will have some of our spouses. Not a very nice thought...

[LifeGoesOn]

The affair is the hardest part of this whole situation for me to cope with. i do not spend Toooo much time dwelling on it, but it is great to have a thread to vent my fears. I "know" it is a distraction from H's real issues, a reflection/projection of his shadow, however it is the most difficult part of the process to accept. I can read tons of situations, loads of research, and I can know enough to write a dissertation on BPD/NPD/sociopaths/addictive R's, but STILL do not SEE it in my own situation. 

My concerns hit every now and then (cycling) in the form of:

What if he has never loved ME and now has found who he truly loves? He believes this is true. This is the reality I live with. In many ways, hobag doesn't "fit". Every issue that comes up for me is researched and I am ALWAYS led back to "typical affair down". Everyone's posts on the subject helps me immensely. I can then get through another 24 hours without thinking about it...until the next trigger. The more I learn, the more powerful I feel. I also use what i learn for self-reflection...was i ever THAT way? Are others in my life That way? What changes can I make?

HOWEVER!  I also know he is being manipulated by a master sociopath. (BPD's didn't quite fit her which left me confused for a long time) 

Paraphrased from Margaret Singer on Influence:
We often want to influence others for a variety of reasons. A good choice-respecting educative/therapeutic way involves questioning for reflection or clarification or discussion, Is information giving, offers ideas and solutions, and may involve a rational message argument. We see this every day here on the forum.
 A compliance-gaining, manipulative method is more insidious. The manipulation may be a conscious plan for a power/control grab, or the person may not even be aware they are manipulating for power/control having equated power and control with "love". Tactics used run along a spectrum of obvious to extremely slow and subtle and will seem incredibly insidious to those watching it unfold but the victim will be oblivious and defend the manipulator at all costs.
A main goal is to isolate from normal social support and from reality testing.
 Tactics:
#1 increase the victims' suggestibility and soften them up through alcohol, drugs, tales of woe, etc.
#2 establish control over social environment, times, and sources social support. This includes defaming 'friends' and others that do not         support the manipulator. The control promotes social isolation and creates dependence.
#3 establish rules about who,what , where, when on communications with others as well as permissible topics.
#4 make victim re-evaluate self and see their "old" self in a negative manner to destabilize emotional control, defense mechanisms, and reality awareness.
#5 create powerlessness by undermining confidence in self.
#6 create drama (punishments), social isolation, intense guilt, anxiety, and fear. This can be outright demands or more subtle "it makes me feel bad when you visit your kids without me. sniff, pout"...translate..maybe I won't be here when you get back.

So, even if there is not any obvious drama in the affair, you can see your spouse's responses to the tactics.

While I hesitate to diagnose my H or the hobag with a disorder, disordered behavior runs rampant.
Lovefraud.com has tons of articles which describe my H's affair. Is he a sociopath? Yes...at the moment he acts like one, and there are  a few good articles on how sociopaths target "good, honorable people" just to see if they can bring them down, and on how the target can become like the sociopath.  I recommend reading some of the hundreds of articles for insight into what your spouse may be dealing with, why they can't break away, why they seem happy (they are told they are!), why this "love" is so different (b/c love is a cycle of fear, anxiety, bonding and relief. NOT! but the brain chemicals feel similar). 

 H and hobag are not sociopaths They are probably not sociopaths in the criminal aspect as a cash con or a bunny boiler.  Their need for power and control seems to be limited to"love" and a bonus of prestige or money gifts.  H wasn't before, and from what I know about her, she is. A main piece of evidence is that all of her relationships overlap. She was involved with someone when she pursued her H...gave him the same "he is evil" tale of woe, and so on. Then, with in a year of marrying him, was onto pursuing my h in a classic, textbook fashion. H excuses all of her behavior as coincidental or done for love. (BARF) I have no idea how far H will allow himself to be pushed. I do know she won't give up until he marries her. Once she has "won", she will move on.

No, I don't think I am wasting my time thinking about the A. The information I get gives me insight into not only their A , but in other relationships in my life as well.

And everything boils down to: Live my life, Focus on my personal growth and well-being of my family. You can't save someone from themselves.

[Anjae]

What if he has never loved ME and now has found who he truly loves? He believes this is true.

Of course he have loved you. Yes, he believes he had found the one he truly loves. For the time being. And, in the worst case scenario that he really did found the one he truly loves, well, LGO, so do have you: yourself! With or without husband you have to always love yourself.

They are probably not sociopaths in the criminal aspect as a cash con or a bunny boiler.  Their need for power and control seems to be limited to"love" and a bonus of prestige or money gifts. 

Seema to be a common thing, spouse and other person power and control is limited to "love", prestige and money gifst/benefits. Poor the. Always so shallow.