[Shantilly Lace]

Because you can live your life as IF they are never coming back and have hope that they will. Totally different things.
I lived for months as IF D6 was going to Be severely disabled being told she,being told she wasn't viable for life and every week being told something else
Was wrong.

We prepared the family that it could be hard and that the baby maybe sick. But I NEVER gave up hope that she would be ok. Despite being faced with some new bad news every week.
Guess what I have a healthy D6.

So why should unroll over and not have hope?  Why should I do the work for something I don't want?  I can live as if he isn't coming home working on my dreams and hopes and my girls.  I have hope he will wake up one day. That doesn't mean I am hanging on or in denial I have hope.

If we go our separate ways so be it. But I can hope we don't and I won't aide in that destruction.

[Anjae]

Shant,

I find it very different to have hope for a child that is severely disabled or  for a very ill spouse than for an MLCer to be back and we living our life like if they are never coming back. Maybe without a vanisher that may be easy to do, but with one, gone for years, well...lets say that, in the very least, it is very hard. Waiting and hoping for a ghost to be back?...

If I'm going to life my life like he is never going to be back the hope is useless. Hope means you will leave the door open. If the door is open, you are not IMO, living  like they are not coming back. At least, I'm not.

Also think it is different to have hope for them to "wake up"/ be alright and us to stay married to them (or take them back).

I've hoped for my husband to be back for a long time. He has not. Given that I not able to do both things, live like he is never coming back and hoping that he will be back, well, I'm going to have to choose. But that is me.

What works for me may/does not work for others. No divorce has only made be in limbo. I need an end to this situation. The sooner, the better. Sorry if this goes against the norm of the forum. We're not all alike, our MCLers are not all alike, the situations created by the MLC are not all alike.

[Shantilly Lace]

Nope not for me  Hope is hope and if I leave the back door open doesn't mean good things can't come In The front door.

But I am different. I see the world differently to many. Maybe I remember what it was like for me.
I don't k ow. I just know that hope doesn't mean hanging on. But that is what makes us each individual and special. 

[ziggee]

Hrrrmmm I have to say both arguments sound equally viable to me... that said... I almost get the feeling that until I completely give up and let go... and let the marriage die an absolute death... I have no hope... until I can 100% let go.. I am doomed to the limbo that is the life I have now.   it seems a big gamble to me... but really... Like from the ashes the fiery phoenix... and then... it might turn out the fiery phoenix was just a myth.  But really?  What else do I have?

Z.

[Dontgiveup]

Since I am divorced, I will answer....my answers are based on my situation, experience, and belief system.

"Are there people on the forum for whom D has actually made life dealing with the MLC easier?"

The divorce did not make dealing with the MLC easier.  I would say physical separation and detachment are probably what helped me.


"Did you feel more free?"

Not sure how to answer....I place a very high value on commitment.  My MLCer wanted her freedom, whatever that means in MLC land.


"Did your MLCer change his behaviour towards you."

My MLCer has been a Boomerang post divorce.  I have not seen any Monster post divorce.


"Have you been able to detach more?"

I'm not sure my ability to detach is because of the divorce.  It may have more to do with physical separation and understanding MLC.

[LettingGo]

You did not, honour. I was refering to the fact that we are often told to live our lives like they are never coming back but also to do not divorce or do not make it easy for the mcler to divorce us.

Because this forum is for STANDERS, regardless of what you may believe.... it was started as a place for STANDERS..... and that DOES mean don't make it easy for the MLCer to divorce you.

If I may ask..... for those of you that just KNOW divorce is the choice for you... and it IS your choice, because it is YOUR life, absolutely.... well.... may I ask why you are spending your time on a forum intended for people who choose to stand for their marriages, instead of of focusing on outside activities to move you towards a new healthy relationship? If you're not standing, then why aren't you dating? I know you've said you already did it.... but why not now? If the marriage is over, you have a vanisher you haven't seen in 3.5 years or so.... and he OBVIOUSLY doesn't need a divorce to have a relationship with someone new.... then why aren't you seriously pursuing a NEW life with love?

I'm really not trying to pick on you, AnneJ..... you aren't the only one with this conundrum.... but I'm trying to figure out what it is that you are getting from this forum for standers? If divorce is the answer for you, then why not seek a divorce recovery group.... or a singles group... MOST separated people date!! In fact, MANY people stay married FOR CONVENIENCE sake for YEARS.... they don't need a divorce in order to move on in their lives.... it's an arrangement they have... Now, I do realize that your husband "has you over a barrel" financially.... I get that..... but that is a DIFFERENT scenario..... wanting a divorce to protect yourself financially, but still hoping for reconciliation eventually.

Again.... I'm just so curious as to the point of this thread on a STANDER'S FORUM??

Flame away...

[Anjae]

I understand you Shant. But, picture this. I (or any other LBS), after a significant amount of years, gets divorced. A few years later meets someone. They marry. LBS still hopes former spouse "wakes up" and comes back. Former spouse wakes up, wants back, comes after LBS.

Now what, LBS was always hopeful and here it is, the former spouse. You go and leave your current spouse?... Hope only aplies if you want to reconcile. If you want to remarry you cannot have hope for your MCLer to return. For then to be well that is different. I think we should still have hope for our MCLer to be well.

I know what I'm talking about regarding that thing that, if you still hope your MCLer is going to return you cannot remarry (or if you do it will be very hard on your new spouse) nor have a serious relashionship with someone else. There was someone I really liked, and really liked me. Husband had left for years, had been a vanisher for a while. Guess what? I was still hoping for husband to be back, so, of course, it did not worked out.

And I'm very sorry it did not worked out. But I realised that, for another relashionship to work out, hope for husband to return has to be gone. And I have to be divorced.

Yes, yes, I know, lots of people do not mind living with people that are married, like our MCLers other persons. 

LG, because, when we came here, we were standing. At least, I was. But things change. We change.

Read above, LG, and you will know why I'm not, currently, persuing a new life with love. Of course he is with someone. Someone that does not mind he is married and has stayed married for all the 3 + years he is with her. Thing is, some people do mind that the people they date still is married.

And I'm married because my husband does not really divorce. He start process that we knows will not grant him the divorce, drags and drags and also drags when I star one. So, again, he does not want to divorce. He want to have me here waiting for him.

If I remember, it was already said that it makes sense a LBS, even if at a certain point comes to divoce, may stay in the forum. There are several divorced people here and some are not wainting for their spouses to be back.

PS: Yes, LG, he has me over a barrel financiall. No, no more hoping for eventual reconciliation. Everything has and end. Fair enough, we do not know the future and, in a few years, my mind may change. But for now, it is over. Door closed. Sorry, no more.

[xyzcf]

There are no benefits to being legally separated from my husband. As each asset is changed from being jointly owned to being in my name only, I fear that it will be harder for him to feel the need to come back to our marriage.

I live alone and I believe in the covenant of marriage so I shall continue to live alone..that is not what I wanted, ever.

Even though I know this is not about me, I feel like people judge me..I must have done something wrong for such a good guy to have left me. I feel ashamed in some demented way.

I hate being legally separated..hate it with all my inner being. The financial cost of this has been ridiculous and the emotional cost enormous. The damage to my daughter and even other extended family members is very great.

He has what he wants..but this is 100% his separation, not mine.

It may protect some of us financially and set clear boundaries regarding child custody but it is wrong, wrong, wrong.....society accepts this as the norm..it is inevitable....

What's different in a MLC divorce? He was done with me without ever giving us a chance to make changes that might have meet his needs, he never expressed dissatisfaction until he made the decision to leave.

I am living my life as though he is not coming back and it is good and will get better..but I shall always have hope that the man I knew is inside somewhere.....I shall live but I shall always keep the door open to him.

[Covenant for Life]

My divorce was final 2 months ago - a divorce that was 100% my H's.  I was able to delay it for two years here in Illinois since H had no grounds.

And, I will say unequivocally that there are NO benefits to this.  I, like xyzcf, believe in the covenant of marriage and will remain single until my H wakes up and realizes what he has done.  Except for the obvious legal papers, not much has changed in my relationship with my H.  We still do things together as a family.  H spent Thanksgiving here at our home and we went and picked out a Christmas tree a few days later.  He will also spend Christmas here. 

Is standing easy?  All of you know it is not and I have been at it longer than most - will be 4 years in March.  But, whether my H is in MLC or not - and I believe he is - divorce is something that God hates and I am standing with God to resurrect the covenant that GOD witnessed and blessed.  I will get on my soapbox now and am well aware that many 2 by 4's are on the way for what I am about to say.  So be it.

It makes me sick to my stomach what society and MOST CHURCHES now accept which is in direct violation of God's word and will for marriage.  I realize that my beliefs are not the beliefs of everyone on this forum and that most who call themselves Christians do not take God's word as seriously as I do.  But, he has said that he hates divorce and that we are bound to our spouses as long as we are alive.  A civil divorce is not valid in God's eyes when a covenant marriage is involved.  And as HB has so eloquently stated in many of her posts, I believe that if we are doing what God has asked of us on this journey, he will deal with our spouses.  He will allow them to wallow in their sinful state for a season, but eventually he will put up with their disobedience no more.  God has limits.  God made the universe and the laws that govern it including one that states one will reap what he has sown.  Do we honestly think that God will allow someone to abandon his wife and his children, to violate a covenant of 23 years, to be in a state of rebellion and disobedience to God - with no consequences for this sinful behavior?
God just does not operate that way.  He offers forgiveness once one repents, but consequences remain.

God will vindicate the LBSer.  He has promised good things to those who obey him and are faithful to carry out his will in their lives.  God does not need my H's permission to bring him to his knees.  Either you believe that God is in control or you believe that our mixed up MLCers are telling God what to do.  God will act in his timing and God will deliver his brand of justice.  Following the way of the Lord is not easy.  It is a narrow path though many believe it to be wide.  We will have trials and tribulation in this life if we take up our cross and follow Him.  The marriage covenant is a big, big deal to God and God knows that I am staying true to it.  Belief in his promises is the key to seeing them manifest in our lives.

So, no, nothing good has or will come of this divorce except for the honor and glory that will be the Lord's when he resurrects it from the ashes and replaces it with the beauty of a new restored marriage and of a family made whole once again.

[LettingGo]

Convenant.... I don't necessarily subscribe to your particular beliefs EXACTLY.... but I respect your conviction for yourself, and for WHY you are standing.... I also know you love your husband and are handing him up to God to handle. God does restore people to sanity.... God does restore marriages.

I have been divorced before... amicable.. no children. It was still devastating... especially to my former husband who I left suddenly... but he did not "stand" for me... or fight for me and our marriage in any way..... he agreed to the divorce VERY EASILY..... he was not a man who handled INCONVENIENCE very well..... he only liked our marriage as long as everything was perfect.... our divorce devastated his parents..... mine were disappointed.... divorce hurts A LOT of people....

Sometimes, a divorce is in order because we are married to an abuser... but even under those circumstance, we should look to OURSELVES..... to find out WHY we were attracted to such a person.... instead, we have been SOLD A BILL OF GOODS that divorce is a SOLUTION... to ending pain, boredom, incompatibility, general unhappiness.... divorce solves NONE of these things. Besides the covenant, it is a CONTRACT joining together two lives... and after many years and children, it's a complicated contract.... not easy to get out of.... and NO ONE WINS or feels they got a fair shake...NO ONE!!

Not everyone should stay married.... I don't wish I was still married to my first husband.... but the divorce did NOT change my life for better..... it did teach me some lessons... but not for a long while.