[In this for ME]

I agree that adversity will build character in us, however, divorce itself is not a blessing in disguise.

I have to agree with Mitzpah..maybe it's different for other people.

But when your sitting there in the lawyers office trying to help your soon to be ex think up grounds to divorce you on I guess that's a little too accomodating. But I told him he needed to file because I didn't want the divorce.

It was uncontested so we used the lawyer we always have for everything. I got a considerable amount of money and it helped some ..but now that's mostly gone.

 A lot of things are gone and I greive everyday and hope someday to see or feel an end to it.

[LettingGo]

AnneJ..... no one has to answer to me for their choices..... NO ONE... I'm just another person with a point of view.

If I may, I am PUZZLED by you... really! If I'm honest, it seems as if you are trying to convince yourself that divorce is going to free you, BUT, you are so caught up in the story of how awful your husband was to you....I mean, ALL of our stories are tragic and horrible in some way! We get it that your husband hasn't spoken to you in years.... I get it that you don't feel you are really married... I completely do! So my question to you is "What do you get from being on this forum?" I really am curious because it has puzzled me from the beginning.... I just mean, what is it that you GET from being here? I'm not saying you CAN'T be here at all.... I just wonder, because it feels to me like you are STUCK....

I really get the impression that you are STUCK in your resentment of what has happened to you, and I understand..... believe me!! But, it is YOU who suffers for being stuck... I feel there is more that you aren't revealing.... maybe you came from another board where you told your whole story and you got it all out, but I have a lot of questions such as WHY haven't you heard from your husband in all this time? Has he NEVER initiated contact except for the divorce proceedings? You MUST know that the divorce stuff is ALL OW'S doing, right?

I also understand that you wish to have children.... so like me and my first husband, we did NOT have the tie of children... believe me it is EASIER to leave a marriage when there aren't any...MLC did not trigger my first divorce, but I can look back now and see the things that did.... my responsibility. I had a string of long term relationships with "troubled" partners AS A DIRECT RESULT OF MY PARENT'S BEING DIVORCED.... that's right.... it was a DIRECT result of their divorce, that I found it impossible to have an INTIMATE and HEALTHY relationship with anyone. I have seen his syndrome OVER AND OVER with children of broken homes!! I work with young adults and not ONE of them has a happy story of their "Dad's girlfriend" or "Mom's new partner".... not ONE... they all harbor resentment even if they don't agree their parents were suited for one another... that's just the TRUTH about divorce and "blended" families.

Anyway, in my particular sitch... I married my first hubsand because he was "safe"... a nice, boring man. Actually, he had a lot of good and interesting qualities, but I didn't get that "high" from him that I did from dysfunctional relationships which is what children of divorce CRAVE. My uncle died suddenly at a family gathering, at the same time I was reintroduced to my lost love at the function, and the dynamic was one of TOTAL CRAZINESS in my head.....just like the infatuation the MLCer feels for OW! Although I suggested marriage counseling for me and my husband, he had NO idea what was going on.... we went to counseling.... I had one foot out the door, and the COUNSELOR'S SUGGESTED "Open marriage" for us!! based upon our complaints!! Yep!! What they DIDN'T have was ALL THE INFORMATION, cuz I sure wasn't giving it to them, and my husband didn't bother asking.... all he cared about was the lack of sex, for real.... so the opportunity for SOMEONE to possibly talk some sense into me was LOST by the professionals who might have wondered "what is REALLY going on here? This is so sudden, her discontent...." but I don't blame them.

So, I moved heaven and earth to get to my CURRENT husband... I really did, and no one tried to stop me. All I heard was "Oh, well... at least you don't have kids....." The divorce attorney was ADVERSARIAL, though my former husband and myself stated plainly that we cared for one another and wanted an amicable separation.....in fact he and I were friendly... doing things together... going out and such and NO ONE thought "wow, that's unusual...do they REALLY want a divorce? Is this the answer?" NO ONE... because in our society, we have been sold a bill of goods that says divorce will solve your problems and they will all go away. It's simply not true!!

Not everyone should be married... or at least for life. So, AnneJ...... if you got your divorce TOMORROW, would you suddenly be happy? I realize you would feel free in certain ways... but would it make you happy? Solve your problems? I feel you would STILL be angry over what has happened, and I just wonder after all this time if your husband really is GONE as far as you're concerned, will a divorce really be the only way you can move on?

I know this is uncomfortable..... I'm uncomfortable asking these questions of you because it's public and we aren't face to face and I know it can sound CHALLENGING in a negative way, and that's not really where I'm coming from... I really just am curious... sometimes what people tout is not what they are really feeling... just like me wanting to divorce my first husband..... there was MORE to the story, deep feelings of confusion for me, and no one bothered to look.... thankfully, I learned much from it, but the lessons I learned were SAD ones about myself.

There are NO winners in a divorce... no matter how many people you run across that claim "I finally got rid of that a**hole!" because at some point you loved one another, hopefully. Statistically it is TRUE that the MAN usually recovers financially from a divorce in about a year's time, whereas the WOMAN and children fall into poverty nearly immediately. Those are the facts for MOST PEOPLE. Statistically, children of divorce go on to have their own dysfunctions with relationships and divorce... in my case, I didn't marry for the first time until I was 30 (not so old...) because I was AFRAID OF DIVORCE!!! It's not just me!!

I'm sorry.. I cannot agree fundamentally with divorce... I can't. This doesn't mean I believe NO ONE should get one, either. You know, my husband has said to me "If I hadn't of had the affair, you wouldn't have changed in these positive ways..." and I looked him in the eye and said "maybe not... but PLEASE don't ask me to EVER say your affair was a good thing, because I just can't do that."

Yes, people learn valuable lessons in their lives, sometimes from a divorce... maybe you need this and it is part of your LIFE HISTORY that must be played out... I don't condemn you at all, especially under your circumstances.... but I STILL WONDER "what is it you are getting from being on a standing forum?" it feels like you are trying to CONVINCE yourself or gain PERMISSION to be divorced, when really... it's YOUR life!

I really hope I haven't come across in an offensive way... I have the best intentions to just explore our feelings here..... even at the expense of showing my own warts, LOL!!

[mercury]

Interesting topic. that for sure.

For me, I have declared I wasn't a stander and held high hopes that the divorce would bring me peace. I surprising feel more peace now then before, was it because I declared I wasn't standing anymore. Probley it released me from the burden of standing. Although, my behavior then and now are the same.

I have long stated that hope is a killer, it is hard to have hope for the marriage and move on. It was a continues battle between my mind and my heart. It still goes on, I'm not released from it  but I also know that the D will not end that struggle either, it has to come from with me, I have to make peace with it. We each will have to make peace with all the of this and it makes no difference how you find it, only that you do

[Anjae]

Mitzpah, For us, it is not the divorce that will (has) caused a financial shortage, it was the MLC in itself. In some cases divorce may level the financial situation.

Divorce itself is not a blessing in disguise. I would much prefer things had not come this far and it was possible to reconcile. Sadly, things went too far and the cost, at all levels, become too high.

Guess it is that thing of there are no guarantees if you stand. There are no guarantees both for the LBS and the MCLer. If the MCLer may never be back to the LBS, the LBS may not take the MCLer back, or may divorce the MCLer. Just like the MCLer may divorce the LBS.

Adversity will build character in us, teach us valuable lessons, leaves us with more compassion for other people pain (MCLer included) but what we go through, be it with a child with cancer or a spouse in MLC does not mitigate our pain or make it less horrible.

It may be a blessing, like divorce, in the sense that there is a growth within us that may not come another way. What I’m not sure is if we needed that pain and growth or if the growth could had not be achieved in another, less horrible way…

You’re wrong, LG, I’m not trying to convince myself. It is decided. I will divorce him. True, it took awhile until that decision was final. I’m not in MLC so, it was not that easy to put a final end to 20 years (plus the over five of the crisis).

I’m not caught up on how much he hurt me but the truth is he did. It is a fact. I have forgive him (I’ve said that before) and have a lot of compassion for him. And I do miss the man I married and meet when I was 18. But that man is no more. No idea if he ever be or not a better/different version of is pre-crisis self.

I may be wrong but the feeling I have is that, a LBS choosing, and choosing to stop standing and close the door makes some people here very uncomfortable. I understand that. And that it may seem strange that someone comes here as a stander and end up stopping being one.

But things and people do change. Nothing is ecstatic. Nor the LBS, nor the MLCer, nor the crisis in itself.

The forum has other non standers and several divorced people. And people that had been divorced before and people that started, even briefly, by being OM/OW before become the spouse. None of that changes the pain we all go through at BD and during a spouse MLC. And I think all our visions, life experiences and journey are important.

One size does not fit all. A size that has fitted us some time ago may no longer fit, a size that fits now may not fit in the future.

[LettingGo]

Probley it released me from the burden of standing

That's a profound statement.... in fact, I really appreciate the rest of your perspective as well, and the fact that you can condense your thoughts..... well, I wish I could do that, LOL!!

I may be wrong but the feeling I have is that, a LBS choosing, and choosing to stop standing and close the door makes some people here very uncomfortable. I understand that. And that it may seem strange that someone comes here as a stander and end up stopping being one.

That may be true.... in my case, it doesn't make me uncomfortable because I know that this isn't for everyone, for a LOT of reasons.. some having to do with life lessons to be learned.. my way is NOT the only way... it's just the only way for me. However, this forum WAS started by RCR to give support to people who choose to stand for their marriage.... it seems it has morphed into a whole other thing....  I think it has lost it's focus is all, and I DO wonder  about it..... because I feel there is WAAAAAY more support and understanding for divorce recovery than there is for info on MLC or how to combat the fallout from the MLC behaviors..... there is little to NO support, online or in real life for people who have been left standing in the dust for another woman... abandoned with kids... but who have faith and hope that there marriage will one day be restored and their family dysfunction healed.

I do appreciate your and Mercury's honesty..... I really do!

[In this for ME]

Well I'll tell you what I just got a scarier topic than this one handed to me this morning.

ExH said ( for the second time in the 5 months I've been here) that we probably will get remarried anyway. Like that's his decision. 

If there is a God in heaven (and I do believe there is) I would hope he would have enough mercy on me to keep this idiot who divorced me from asking me for quite a while because the answer will be no. And as stupid as it sounds I don't want to hurt him like that by telling him no.

I was violated so throughly by being given no choice but to divorce him I cannot for the life of me imagine being married to him again.

[Anjae]

LG, I did not come from another board. I have never been in another board before in my life. I've looked at some. They all seemed too agressive and unkind to all parts involved and I do not relate to that sort of behaviour.

What do I get from being in the forum? I learn a lot. And, when I was a stander, it was a place where people would understand the situation.

The divorce doing is not all OW2 doing (husband has talked about it before he left and during OW1) but I do know OW2 has a lot to do with it. Husband's lawyer is her friend.

I have no idea why I have not heard from my husband all this time. No, he never initiates contact except through divorce court, but for the one time he text me saying my kitten was dying and then, that she had died. The only times I’ve heard of him I was the one who contacted (legal/taxes issues, to tell a relative has died, that sort of things). I had stopped talked to him since OW2 become public and he filled for the first fault divorce process.

I think he is the one who is stuck. Why on earth does he goes not for one, but two fault divorces? He knows they take time and, on top of it, he also drags them. Why does he drag my temporary alimony request? Why did he not accept my offer or mediation right after OW1 was history? I’ve offered him all sorts of easy possibilities. He never accepted a single one. Would say that, after all, he is the one who is really does not want a divorce.

To what I’m stuck is to a legal system that is slower than a snail and a man that drags what should had long be solved. Different from being stuck to husband or resent husband.

My cousins are children of divorced parents. They do not harbour resentment at any of their parents nor my uncle now wife, then OW. They (actually we all) get along very well with my uncle former OW, now wife. But the families are not blended. My cousins stayed and lived with my aunt, OW children lived with her and my uncle lived on his own. Know everyone is a grown up and has its life.

On the other hand, my FIL always was a philanderer, has had OW since I started dating husband, has divorced (many years after we started dated, we were already married for years when the divorce happened) and has been living with her for years. Husband always resented, and detested his dad behaviour…Funny, he does not seem to get he is doing the same thing…

I had no string of long term relationships with troubled partners. Only had one serious boyfriend before husband and it was a fine relationship. I was a kid. It was all nice and kiddy and sweet.

I meet my husband when I was 18. Things were nice for us. We both had normal family issues, he had is issues with is dad and his dad’s philandering and OW, but it never was that much of a problem for the tow of us. However, I think it was a major problem for husband. The marriage was normal. It had its down, like any marriage. There were never intimacy problems, we had a lot in common, we build and created many joint creative/cultural projects.

Well, if you and your first husband get along, still go out, there was no MLC nor other person, can’t see much reason for you and your first husband to divorce…Even if I get you were in that total high craziness do to your uncle passing away and meeting your lost sweet heart.

Divorce does not solve most problems in a normal marriage. In a MLC one it may solve some.

Actually, I thought I would be married for life. So did husband (before the crisis). I’m happy. The divorce would only let me feel freed from all this constant court nonsense, left me with the financial issues sorted out and put a legal end to something that no longer exists.

It is the only way to move on if you want absolute closure, finances sorted out and a new serious relationship. It is not the only way to move on a more personal/spiritual way. The unresolved legal and financial stuff is the part that makes me less happy. I don’t like to have that stuff hanging and not closed. It drains me, It makes no sense and it is not logical.

Think that is the part that may cause confusion, is that to me, legal ending is needed. I don't like to have unresolved business pending. 3 plus years of legal stuff that never gets sorted out is way too much time for my liking. 

[StandandDeliver]

Wow, in this - that is quite a statement! My H told me after he moved out, that we would "have to be divorced if we were to ever stand a chance of getting back together again"

That was months ago now though. My feeling was similar though - why the hell go to the trouble of DIVORCING someone, if you think there is even the most vague possibility that you might want them back at some point? Or he may have been trying to manipulate me into moving the divorce forward more quickly. WHO KNOWS. I remember saying to him that I felt that divorce was probably the final nail in the coffin (after the affair and the abandonment). (I know never say never, and HB has stated that she believes that it is the MLCer marrying the other person, not divorce that makes reconciliation unlikely)

One of his more MLCery moments for sure. I did not start this topic because I WANT a divorce , I started it because for some of us it is very very difficult to avoid - financial arrangements depend on it (depending on where you live - where I live there is no formal separation - you are married or divorced and if your MLCer is messing around with money, getting himself into debt - whatever - the divorce is the only way of protecting any assets you are entitled to. I have kids, I can't AFFORD to have NOTHING at this stage in my life. I gave up several years of work to be a SAHM and to move for H's career. I have no pension, although I am back to work the ONLY savings I have are ones that I shared with H (yes there is a lesson in there for me about all my eggs in one basket, believe me I Know, but the lesson does not alleviate my immediate financial pressure). So I will divorce. I have stood, and I have lapsed, and I am standing again (for me, I guess) to complete my healing. I have still not written off the opportunity to reconcile if H were to ever indicate he would want to, I honestly don't know how I would feel about it, but I also know that unlike those that stand forever (who I really do respect) I will not. I want to feel true love for someone again. I want to enjoy passion again. I want companionship again. And if H does not return (like you did not in your first marriage, LG) I don't want to think that those things are gone from my life forever and I had my only shot at them. I wanted to hear if there are ANY positives from divorce, precisely because I don't really want one, but have not been left with any alternative so I NEED TO FIND something to hold on to, to help make something I don't want feel less bad. I have made it clear that I am giving him what HE wants, that it is not my CHOICE and he has had to do the ground work. I am sure that OW is pushing for D, and I have not given it to him quite the way he expected (he had me in mediation one week after he left and I walked out of mediation thinking WHOA, this is GOING to slow down because he is moving WAY too fast (my only moment of strenght and clarity at that time and before I had found this site). I am not advocating divorce, I would prefer if I could protect my assets and my children and custody arrangements another way...

[Dontgiveup]

"My H told me after he moved out, that we would "have to be divorced if we were to ever stand a chance of getting back together again""

Below is a blog RCR did that may provide some insight.  MLCers are definitely not rational beings.

http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?paged=14

[honour]

If there is a God in heaven (and I do believe there is) I would hope he would have enough mercy on me to keep this idiot who divorced me from asking me for quite a while because the answer will be no.

Thanks for that line Long haul, it made me smile. 

honour