[Covenant for Life]

DGU, Most DO have difficulty accepting the time line of how long this truly takes.

I want to give all of you hope by sharing some things I have witnessed in my H over the last couple of months.  Remember that my BD was almost 4 long years ago and H's divorce was final this past September.

My birthday was two weeks before Christmas.  The past two birthdays, my H did not call, text, nor acknowledge my birthday in any way.  This year, he came to my birthday dinner, verbally wished me a Happy Birthday, gave me a card, and a gift and did not leave our home that night until close to 11 pm.  He also spent most of the weekend prior to my birthday with our family.  We even attended a Christmas Festival that our D20's boyfriend was in and I felt led by God to grab his hand during the message and he gripped mine back tightly.  We then went to dinner after with D20, her BF, and three other college friends (who do NOT know we are divorced).  He was telling them about our college experiences and how he met his wife in college!

He spent Thanksgiving with us this year whereas last year, he was away climbing another mountain.

Christmas this year was extra special.  Though H has spent all 4 Christmas Eves with us since BD, this year was different.  He was so into the Christmas Eve service.  He cried throughout the service - even as we were standing and singing the carols.  He sobbed throughout the sermon.  At the end, it is tradition at our church to sing Silent Night and our pastor told all of us to not let another day go by without telling those we care about that we love them.  That directive was straight from God!!!!  My H put his arm around me during the carol and held me to his chest.  I was belting out the song as well as crying as I just totally felt God's presence over us at that moment and I know my H was feeling that presence, too.  It was an unbelievable moment and a gift from God.  It was the first time in almost 4 years that I felt actual love from my H toward me and toward our children.

H also went to church with us another Sunday in December and also cried throughout the service.  It is so evident that God is moving in H's heart and that H is being convicted.  Only God can do this work as we cannot.  Give it to God and watch him move in our situations!  It may not be on our timeline, but it will happen.  Just BELIEVE.

My H stayed at our home until close to 1 am on Christmas Eve.  I take D20 and S17 to my sister's house on Christmas Day.  We have not seen H on Christmas Day since BD.  This year, he asked me to let him know when we returned.  I texted him when we returned home and he came over and played games with me and the children.   Another change!

The world - and most of my family - told me years ago to kick my H to the curb, especially after the divorce was finalized.  My heart said no.  God is telling me to stand.  God is telling me to wait on him.  I truly believe that "what God has joined together, no man can separate."  My H tried, but the covenant bond is stronger than we could ever imagine and is only broken at death.  It is my calling to show my H the love of Christ NO MATTER WHAT.

Do not give up hope.  Pray unceasingly.  Believe in God's promises.  Know that faith is the assurance of what you are hoping for without SEEING it.  God is not done with me, my H, or our marriage.  I do not know how long this will take, but my faith is strong and I do believe.  Allow the process to work and get out of God's way so that he can do what only HE can do.

[limitless]

CFK,

Your post really resonates with me.  Four years.....and it does sound that your H is making progress.

I think that is really great.  I hope that things continues on that path.

Keep posting and letting us know how you are doing.

Hugs,

L

[readytofixmyselffirst]

This has nothing to do with timelines or acceptance of MLC.

If you read the posts and the responses neither of us ever doubted that WM's spouse is not in MLC. Even RCR posted that with a marriage and child, the timeline cease as the MLCer can be stuck in replay.

What HB is writing and advising is that he may try and come back to WM in the future, but he will only be running away from OW and will still be in replay. That the chances are very slim that he may ever truly solve his issues and he may run from ow#1 to ow#2.

I am not trying to tell someone that there is no chance he will ever come back. I just want to make sure that WM knows that the odds are very slim and it will be very difficult.

Let's take the scenario one step further. Two years from now, we are still posting. A person posts that they met their husband, had a child, and suddenly he moves on to another woman. She states that he has done this to his first wife. Do we advise her to stand? Do we call her an OW and tell her that she has no chance?

Our forum is to support people during a very difficult time. You are absolutely correct that most of us are just going on two years. If you read my posts to others and on their situations, I consistently remind them that this process takes time- lots of time. I refer to you each and every time. I just want to make sure that we give good solid advice and not become a group that is stuck to absolute beliefs that every MLCer is coming back and every marriage is going to be saved.

I also consistently post about the fact that satan already has the MLCer, he goes after the LBSer by planting seeds of doubt that this is MLC. Through doubt, he erodes the confidence and will of the LBSer. 

I do disagree with you concerning the counseling. Once again, you speak in absolutes. MC often fails if the LBSer convinces the MLCer to go. Then the MLCer may use the counseling as a forum to show why the marriage is over. In my situation, it was her idea. If I had turned it down, she could have easily twisted that as a point that I did not want to save the marriage.

The one thing about MC is that just like MLC, it takes time and can not be seen as a quick cure. Our MC at one point turned to my wife and told her, "Wouldn't it be safe to say that at this point, that in your eyes, he can't do anything right?" My wife paused and agreed. The counselor then said, "Then you should not blame him for anything he does."

If another person can throw a truth dart, and they are trained to throw truth darts, then let them.

As I have stated above and stated throughout my many, many posts- there are no guarantees, you could wait ten years and nothing happen. You could wait another ten minutes and everything change. From my perspective and viewpoint, I would rather HB tell me there is no chance and write those words directly to me, then for her to have that feeling  but never reveal it to me to "protect" me. That would be disingenuous and would only hurt the forum and those that choose to stand.

I may not read the articles as thoroughly as I should, but when I feel the necessity to post something, I write my words with under three umbrellas:

This forum is for the LBSer and the LBSer needs to let go and work on themselves. Even if the marriage fails, then the LBSer has done deliberate work so that they will be able to enter into another healthy relationship if necessary.

The LBSer has to accept that their spouse has MLC. That acceptance is necessary for the healing and detaching process.

That MLC takes time and is a lot of work. There are no easy cases. No one gets a break and there are no guarantees.

[Writingmom]

Thank you, RCR for addressing this.  All very helpful insight. 

I have spent lots of time in prayer and journaling and reading yesterday/last night and this is what I personally have come to decide:  I need to let go of H.  Of our marriage.  As RCR mentioned, was hope really intuitive or was it fantasy?  I don't know.  Was it a coping mechanism?  Was it just survival instinct?  Was is parental instinct? 

I don't know.  And I still wrestle with the word hope and what it truly means. 

This I know, whether I Stand or not, whether I hope or not, I cannot progress looking out of the corner of my eye and wondering.  I think that's why I've not been a regular on here.  Sometimes I feel that even though we are encouraged to detach, the umbrella of the crisis is what has brought us all together, and thus the MLCer is given (in my sitch) too much thought. 

This is in God's hands.  A healed marriage, another divorce, Standing/Not Standing...I don't know how it will play out and I only cause myself to stumble when speculation takes root.  Mine or anyone else's. 

God will provide for me.  Period.  He has me where I need to be.  Solely focused on him.  As long as I engage, wonder, hope, whatever...I'm stunting myself.  It's time to let go of it all (again) and move forward (again).

I will say that when H is still present, not a Vanisher (Boomerang in my sitch?  I don't know) it is difficult.  Just this morning, on my way back from my "retreat", I came directly upon H in OW's car.  He saw me.  We saw each other. 

He had to pull out behind me, but stayed way, way back.  He had to come up behind me on a red light, but creeped up as slowly as possible and turned off as soon as he could to get to Starbucks. 

He does this.  He tries to shield me.  When he drives her car, he parks further back in the driveway so I cannot see him.  Why?  I don't know.  There is clearly some level of wanting to protect me.  Does he think I'm a fragile egg?  Is it guilt? 

I dont' know.  And although this sort of thing happens a lot, I need to stop letting it trigger hope.  I have tricked myself into thinking these were little signs of remorse, shame, regret.  I don't think that at this point they are.  And I have to let it go, odd as it is. 

Hope for me is in God's plan for my future.  That's it.  Period.  If He wants me to Stand, HE will create that stirring in my heart and it will not be a waning emotion.  If He wants me to move on, without hope, HE will give me the strength to do so and the clarity of mind to make it happen. 

I think RCR's purpose of this board is a solid one:  To support one's decision to Stand.  I also think HB, in theory, does the same.  My H is under the vice of a lunatic beyond all lunatics.  She needs drama.  She needs to be the center of attention.  She likes to appear wealthy.  She likes to continue to hold things over my head.  She continues to berate and belittle--no, crucify--her ex. 

How it plays out or when, I don't know.  But I know that it won't happen when I'm looking, when I'm waiting.

Thank you, RCR for reminding us of the above.  It's messy for each one of us and certainly I do not want to be the poster child for giving up hope.  It is a fine line to decide to Stand and to detach at the same time.  That I think is confusing for so many. 

For now, WM is moving onward and upward.  Whether H joins me in the journey at some point again, I don't know.  But I have got to keep moving regardless. 

[Wed2Him?Whatever.]

I also consistently post about the fact that satan already has the MLCer, he goes after the LBSer by planting seeds of doubt that this is MLC. Through doubt, he erodes the confidence and will of the LBSer.

Thank you for this; I needed to read it!

[Faith]

Covenant For Life's post really made me think.  I guess this is a fatal flaw of mine, but I just can't treat my H with love anymore.  I don't treat him hatefully, but I just don't want to talk to, or be around him....ever.  After so much betrayal, just seeing him now stirs up so much hurt and anger.  His recent behavior makes me wish my kids didn't even have to be around his influence at all.  I wish he would vanish completely and we could move on with our lives in peace.  My girls already know they need to look to other Godly men as role models.  I don't know what good he is bringing to them, other than the biological bond and the fact that girls (and boys) deep down want their dads no matter who they are.

I'm a complete failure at standing and at this point I'm sure I'm a downer on this board, for which I'm very sorry.  I do truly love seeing some of your MLCers seeming to make progress - I hope and pray there are MANY more outcomes like RCR's and HB's.

[Phoenix]

Thank you WM. What a beautiful. thoughtful post. I am going through a painful time as H is moving forward legally after the New Year. I have confusion within me about how to proceed though I know that I cannot control H. I can only determine how I respond.  I continue to spend time in deep thought/prayer/meditation as I need clarity.  It has not come yet, but I continue opening myself to it. Your post was helpful to me.  You are a remarkable woman.
Best,
Phoenix

[StillStanding]

You mention accepting the cold facts.  I think one of the key things many of us actually have difficulty accepting is the MLC process.  RCR has a very very good article on Acceptance, one that I have personally read dozens of times.

For people who want to read it, it's at: http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_acceptance.html

No apparent movement does not necessarily mean the MLCer is stuck.  Another of RCR's articles that is excellent is Back-Limbo-Forward.  It discusses movement and progress of the MLCer.

And that article is at: http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_progress_back-limbo-forward.html

[Wed2Him?Whatever.]

Covenant For Life's post really made me think.  I guess this is a fatal flaw of mine, but I just can't treat my H with love anymore.  I don't treat him hatefully, but I just don't want to talk to, or be around him....ever.  After so much betrayal, just seeing him now stirs up so much hurt and anger.  His recent behavior makes me wish my kids didn't even have to be around his influence at all.  I wish he would vanish completely and we could move on with our lives in peace.  My girls already know they need to look to other Godly men as role models.  I don't know what good he is bringing to them, other than the biological bond and the fact that girls (and boys) deep down want their dads no matter who they are.

I'm a complete failure at standing and at this point I'm sure I'm a downer on this board, for which I'm very sorry.  I do truly love seeing some of your MLCers seeming to make progress - I hope and pray there are MANY more outcomes like RCR's and HB's.

A failure, how?  By feeling human feelings?  By having a hard time with your H's MLC?  WE ARE ALL survivors here!

[LisaLives]

Faith, WM, I have never been a big fan of the concept of schadenfreude--it seems very cruel, but I feel such a huge sense of relief that there are others who feel something of what I feel. 

Faith, I understand your sense of failure and I think our H's are psychological twins.  Your story sounds so much like mine it is eerie, and at the same time, tiring.  I feel your pain and frustration and echo every single sentiment.  I am so jealous of the women whose H's just drop off the planet.  I honestly feel my boys would be much better off with some distance and space to process and it would be much healthier for H to reconnect when he is saner--because I do believe he will look back with some regret. 

In my heart I would like to stand, but my head has always told me differently.  I struggle with hope and faith and acceptance and strength, but at the end of the day, my head always wins.  I know that if I stand and it doesn't work out, I will never forgive myself for wasting more time investing in a man who never loved me.  But, no matter what I choose to do "not standing," I will make the best of it and be happy.  And the second path is the only one where I get to make the choices and call the shots--and it is time for me to put on the big girl panties and make choices and stop living for him...

I am sending both of you all my strength and positive energy.  Love and light and hope for a much better new year!  Lisa