[Rider]

STP ...

Welcome aboard!  If you have a way of contacting NJR, invite him over.

So glad to hear you're well on the way back to happiness. 

Your insights and encouragement are always very much appreciated.    

Rider

[hobo1]

STP - Glad you and your wife are doing well....  Certainly your BD to R is on the short side...  Thanks for all your support and encouragement throughout the past year...

Things are certainly easier now than a year ago for me.  I remember your words of encouragement in the early days, and they kept me going.  I certainly would not wish to relive the early days immediately after BD.  I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy.

[Thundarr]

So glad to see so many of our LT brothers on here.  I've sent messages out to all the ones I have contact info for.  Rover and TEH already know about it and so does HFF.  I have Canuck's email somewhere and hopefully someone can contact NJR and any others I'm leaving out.  Let's burn this thread up and all have a great SuperBowl weekend!!

------------------------------------------------------------




EDIT:  The Patriots are going to blow out the weakling Giants.  Go Pats!!!  - OldPilot

[HeartsBlessing]

Glad to see you guys. I'll pop in to this thread every once in awhile to see how everyones is doing.

Things are still good for me. Happy to say the blonde is out of my wifes hair (Finally! The front half of her head had been blond since Jul '09 around the start of her EA, and mixed with either blue, purple or pink). She is working a lot more now too. Two years now, our old home has been for sale-hope the buyer sale happens quicker than the foreclosure. Even moreso than in my last update she has reverted to her old self, although some new traits acquired during her MLC still linger.


For the HS people who don't know me, I am a MLC survivor. From bomb drop to reconcile was 11 mos. (Nov '09-Sept '10). There was an OM and the affair went from EA to PA. We separated and lived apart for 7 mos. but with circumstances, determination and playing the game right, it all worked out

Hello STP; nice to meet you. 

I'm sorry, but you two are NOT done or even close.  You're doing well from what I can see, and your Insight gained is helpful to the ones coming behind you; but there's more to go, and more of the road to walk.

Food for thought, but 11 months in this is NOTHING; your wife went into and is STILL in, a developmental growing process that will continue last from 5 to 7 years, if not longer, or a little shorter; better if longer, because she still has issues to face within that are unique to HER; and her journey has nothing to do with you, and still has everything to do with HER.

I'm sorry if it seems I'm steadily raining on your parade, you two are still NOT out of the woods, just yet; your wife STILL has a LONG way to go before her crisis is done.

You, STP, are considered a "leader" within this particular group, and I can see where Thundarr might get some of his "thinking" he's more near the end, rather than the beginning; and hey, man, you're nowhere close either, Thundarr.

Sorry, Thundarr, you DO still need to watch this guy even as he continues to update his situation, and I'm hoping he will; he's way ahead of you; while you still have so much to learn.

For what it's worth, the ending of the affair is NOT even the real beginning of  the end of the crisis, from what I can see, she is still showing shades of Replay within herself, judging from the "teenage" hair color; and the slow revert to "old" self.

And, she still has many issues to face within herself.  And these are faced in earnest during the final three stages of the crisis..not necessarily in a linear fashion; but they will be faced, or return, until they are.

At this time, from what you've written down at this time, your wife seems to be doing well; and seems to be slowly making her way forward, and her reverting to her "old" self is somewhat helpful; but change in HER is NOT all there is to look at; what about YOU? 

Some of her changes, for what it's worth,  will NOT simply go away; some will remain; and I'm not seeing anything about YOU changing; what have YOU done for yourself to also grow?  This is not all about HER; but it also has to do with you, too.

The journey's are connected in ways that aren't always easy to understand; and if what I see offends you, I cannot help that; I can only say what I see.   

Thundarr can tell you, I don't pull any punches here, I don't gain anything from being "gentle" AND, I don't have to live your life; but what you said caught my eye, so I read further.


In explanation:
I've seen too many situations who thought it was all over when the affair ended, only to see the crisis return within 3 to 5 years; and the second bout was worse than the first..and often the couple, because the LBS doesn't really understand what happened, end up divorced.... it happened to me and my husband in a different kind of way;  it's been documented within my threads from the past two years.  if God hadn't been there to help me at that time, I'm not exactly sure what I would have done, either.

If a MLC'er does NOT dig through to the issue/issues and beyond, that have been the keys that have driven their behavior during the crisis, there WILL be a repeat, worse than the last.  If the LBS does NOT do the same, as BOTH people must take the SAME journey to wholeness and healing; and on THEIR timetables..well, you can look for recurring bouts of crisis, as the crisis WILL have it's just due, and ALL will be faced, resolved, and eventually healed within BOTH people.

For what it's worth, it really does take a MLC'er a LONG time to come out and change really is called for within BOTH people; not just one, and not just the MLC'er..

Food for thought. 

[hobo1]

HB-  STP got his BD in Nov of 09....  that is over 2 years ago...  and throughout the R process there were bumps in the road...  have we heard of 'real' returns after about 2 years?

I also think the BD may not be a good measure either because if I had not pushed my stbx to tell me what is wrong - she may not have given me the BD.  She has withdrawn, and it's various stages of withdrawal with back and forth movement...  There are also MLCers who never leave - so it's hard to know if it's really over....  such is life.

I actually wouldn't mind of the MLCer comes back and has to work on themselves, but are committed to being a spouse....  that's what marriage is about, ups and downs but they don't just give up.

There are things I can work on myself, but with all due respect, I don't believe I have 3 to  5 years of stuff to work on...  Maybe naive on my part but I dont believe the MLC journey is much about me.  I am not perfect, and have things to improve, but I did not up and destroy my family.

thanks for your thoughts HB.

[Dontgiveup]

For the HS people who don't know me, I am a MLC survivor. From bomb drop to reconcile was 11 mos. (Nov '09-Sept '10). There was an OM and the affair went from EA to PA. We separated and lived apart for 7 mos. but with circumstances, determination and playing the game right, it all worked out

First I will say that I don't know your story, but this brief bit of information here makes me wish to point out something that I believe is important.

Not every affair is a midlife crisis.  I am not even convinced that most affairs are midlife crisis.  Sometimes an affair is just that.....it's an affair.  A midlife crisis is a developmental process that generally last 3-5, or maybe up to 7 years.  The affair is simply one symptom of a midlife crisis.

Here are links to a couple of RCR's articles.  One is Midlife Crisis Takes Time.  The other is MLCers Run Even When the Alienator is Gone.  I am putting the link to MLCers Run Even When the Alienator is Gone because we sometimes think that once the affair ends, the MLCer must be done with their crisis.  Since the affair is a symptom of the crisis, this is not necessarily true.  The MLCer must reach Liminality.  It is not a short process to go from the time of bomb drop to Liminality.

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_progress_mlc-time.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_pursuit-and-distance_mlcer-run-when-alienator-gone.html

And finally, I will post the next piece from RCR's article on Acceptance.  Many LBS just simply want the crisis to over with, and I certainly understand that.  But that makes speed the goal.  Perhaps there is an MLCer or two who does go through the complete MLC process is one or two years, but that would lean very heavily toward the exception, and not the rule.  I believe it would be a rare rare case for that to happen, which is why I think RCR recommends to make Acceptance the goal instead of speed.

From the Acceptance article:
"If your goal is speed, it will fail. But most of you will need to learn that through experience. Make your goal Acceptance. It is my wish that you accept the Time reality and make goals within that context. But most of you have the fantasy and hope that you will be the exception, you will change his mind or maybe you doubt it is MLC and therefore believe it will be faster for you. Maybe you are right; exceptions to rules are part of the rules and this is your journey."

[Thundarr]

This thread has quickly become an all-star game, with STP and HeartsBlessing both chiming in.  It kind of reminds me of when Hulk Hogan first met Ric Flair and Flair had the WCW title with him. 

HB, I agree with you on both counts (and you're right about STP being a big influence on me, as are you) but I do have a question about whether or not the return can happen successfully during the crisis.  If you're saying 5-7 years then that would be in line with peri and/or a transition but does that whole time have to be crisis?  I would gladly endure this with my W rather than having my family broken, and isn't it possible for a crisis to morph into a transition?  I know my W's coping skills (or rather lack thereof) contributed to this but I'm unaware of any serious childhood issues.  U think her problem is mostly hormonal.

As always, all feedback is appreciated and I mean for this thread to be an open discussion for all so THANK YOU to all my friends for jumping in (waiting on you, Rookie!).  I'd even live to see this thread stickied so it can go on for all the LT orphans.  Now, about that language restriction and moderation.....

[hopingfourbetter]

Hi Hobo,
  Bd for me is when your world turns up side down, If I did not discover her EA I would not have started my realization that I had to make changes to myself. I knew things were not well for almost two years before Bd, but I did not know what was wrong. I just kept moving on as if everything was fine. The changes that I have made are minor tweaks and adjustments and ongoing even today, I am a better person now than I was two years ago. Hfb

 

[hobo1]

HFB-  I did the same, but I noticed the withdrawal about 6 to 9 mos before BD.  Agree with tweaks and adjustments, it's actions to do or not do...  but really...  i don't think i need a spiritual journey to find myself etc....

[Dontgiveup]

have we heard of 'real' returns after about 2 years?
Is a real return after 2 years possible?  Yes.  Is it likely?  No.  A lot of times we put reconnection and reconciliation in the same sentence.  They are two different things.

There are also MLCers who never leave
Rare.  Very rare.

I actually wouldn't mind of the MLCer comes back and has to work on themselves, but are committed to being a spouse....  that's what marriage is about, ups and downs but they don't just give up.

MLC is a journey they must do alone.  RCR and Conway both write about this.  MLCers cannot work on themselves and be committed to a marriage, or it wouldn't be MLC.

There are things I can work on myself, but with all due respect, I don't believe I have 3 to  5 years of stuff to work on...  Maybe naive on my part but I dont believe the MLC journey is much about me.

You are correct.  MLC is not about you.

I did not up and destroy my family.

This is among the most common phrases I've hard LBS use.  MLC is a very very difficult thing to deal with.  Like RCR says, learning about MLC and it's root causes can be very important for acceptance and understanding.