[WarriorPriestess]

I did work on myself but it was not to change who I was but rather, to survive this nightmare.  I did change.  I have lots of things that still need changing.  But these are all good things for ME.  I don't really care whether they are good for my spouse and we are reconnecting so its not as though its hopeless so why care...no, it is just that I am an individual who was contentedly lost in my relationship as a wife.  Sounds almost MLC, doesn't it?  But I know that I can be both a wife and an individual now.  I didn't even realize I was missing.  But I was....inside...

Well said Bon. 

[ziggee]

.  All the responsibility of the kids is weighing me down (how does Ziggee do it?).  D11 is becoming very ODD and I know it stems from her reaction to her mother rejecting her.  S7 now asks me daily in different ways if I love him and care about him.  He knows I do, but dammit, he should becable to take that for granted at this age.

I get by with a little help from my friends... including the two oldest. 

The other day I was tucking D5 into bed... she was very upset and crying... and then at some point she says... I wan't mamma.  Well my first reaction is oh yes more fall out from MLC... but then I thought you know.. the kids have been going to bed pretty well... and MLC or not... there are going to be nights that the kids are upset about something.  Not ever tear or every bad mark at school or ever conflict is related to this one event that seams to take over every aspect of our lives. 

Flip side of the equation would be... it should would be much easier to handle all these bumps and bruises as a couple... instead of D16 to play half mother half big sister... S22 playing 1/8 mother 1/4 father and me filling in all the blanks... but so far so good.

I have 6... but if I had just 4 the younger 4 it would be A LOT harder... I have 4 plus two live in sitters.... so I have it a LOT easier then most... the number just seems big and shocking.   Even the younger ones see the bigger ones chip in and step up.

Z.

[WarriorPriestess]

Ziggee!  Good to hear from you. 

[Thundarr]

Great to hear from you again, Ziggee!

I guess the root of my frustration is how LITTLE D19 helps me out, but she does work and go to college so she's not completely lazy.  As far as helping me clean I'd have better luck asking my W to clean my house.  And when she babysits them she is usually sleeping and paying them no attention.  I love my babies and they will never be burdens, but it is overwhelming at times.  What makes it even harder is that it seems D19 and D11 would prefer to live with W if she would let them.  W did give S7 a bath last night and helped S7 with his homework when I asked her to so I'm not trying to vilify her at all as I often think or assume she is doing the best she can.

[hobo1]

I read so much about MLCers not wanting to be mothers, and helping out around the house etc....  Mine is completely opposite....  she wants to be with the kids, she cleans them, feeds them, does homework with them - etc....  Ideal mom.

are there other MLCers like that?  This is what makes me wonder sometimes.  Ideal sitch for her is that she continues to be a great mom, keeps the house, and everything in it.  just without me.

Me, she wants out of her life.  Every remnant or reminder of me, she needs cleansed with holy water and disinffected and sanitized.

Everything was separated, even when I was in the house, my food is separated from hers and the kids, my bottle of PAM, and her bottle of PAM, my milk and her milk....  She locks the door to her room, like I am an outsider, just a stranger.  All she would do is go online, or watch TV.  She would not talk to me, she would just be angry.  She says I 'stress' her out.

She wouldn't even want to look at me.  If she 'had' to look at me, she would peer through the crack of the door.

She was 'stuck' and miserable and angry.  In the beginning, she would say just pretend I don't exist, and pretend like you rent the family room out....  just ignore me.

She had an EA, she said she loves me, but has no feelings for me, says she feels trapped, has a long list of my flaws.  She said I should have 'let her come to her senses' herself.  She said I didn't listen to just leave her alone....  When she would say that in the beginning, I would ignore her for a week, and then try again to see what I can do...  I suppose things could have been different if I would have just left her alone...  but instead, I pushed, I pursued, I asked questions, I became angry, I moved out and back in the house 3 times....  She was a SAHM, and was abandoned by her mother as a child emotionally, she was never on her own, and she was totally dependent on me....  she has an avoidant personality, and she never shared her feelings with me, she had little to no friends....  all seem to indicate some emotional problem...  This started at 42...  this is MLC isn't it?

14 mos. in, and I am still questioning it.

[BonBon]

HoboTB,
I think it is.  Remember that not every MLCer abandons every one in their life.  Some ditch all of their family and their friends....some just the family...and some just the spouse.  Just because she's being a good mom does not mean she's not in an MLC.

If she were just unhappy in the marriage, would she be doing these crazy things like separating the food, speaking to you from behind door cracks?  I doubt it highly.  Rational people seeking divorce don't act that way.

As for making it worse, there are very few of us who didn't do those same things for a long time...I hounded my H relentlessly in the beginning trying to figure out what went wrong, what I could do.....don't beat yourself up for that.  That's an all too common pitfall and one that makes perfect sense in a normal world...this is not a normal world as you know...

Bon

[Rollercoasterider]

The last thing I need to do is to stand in front of a mirror and make a list of my faults.

OMG! This is awful. I am now imagining myself naked in front of the mirror.  
Did you have to conjure that for me?
Fat stomach.
Flabby thighs.
OMG I have wrinkles!
Back to fat stomach…I can’t avert my eyes.
Is that a gray hair?
 

I don't understand the "heckler" comment, so I would appreciate it if you would elaborate.

It’s not bad or anything.
So picture this. I’m speaking about MLC and I start with an MLC stand up comedy. To make the scene even better…I’ve lost weight and look great. I mean, I’m not on stage in a bikini, but I could be…

You, Thundaar, are in the front row. You are laughing and you’ve got a mischievous grin. You keep interjecting comments as I deliver the jokes.

That is all well and good. But the serious part is that beneath that façade is anger and pain and you are using the humor to cover it up—but you know that already.

My Dad is like that. He describes himself as silly and he can be, but he can’t hide from me that he is bitter and angry and using his silliness to mask the pain. He knows it is his defense too, but sometimes he is too defensive with it and it becomes his sword for hurting others.

Thundaar I don’t see you directing a sword at others, but I do see that some people feel overwhelmed by your pain when they try to help you and many have simply stopped trying because to them you aren’t listening. I know that this is a process of gradual learning and some take longer. We have those who are the victim at the pity-party, crying and sobbing on their threads when they aren’t slashing their MLCer’s tires. You are the life of that party—no crying. Well, you might be crying but we can’t see your tears because you are too busy dancing on the table with that lampshade on your head and you get others riled up with all the partying.
Frankly, I’d rather have you doing that than being the sobber, but both you and the sobber are still at the party.

[Thundarr]

TB,

Your sitch definitely seems unique, but like Bon said they really are all different.  I'd suggest you stop trying to make sense of it and focus on what you know.  I do suspect an APD though.

[Thundarr]

Geez, RCR, I hope I'm not triggering an MLC with you!  You're still young and beautiful!

I see what you mean with the heckler part now, but sometimes I really am in a good mood and I've learned to use humor to break ice and help build relationships.  My W and I used to laugh all the time (we did Saturday) as we both were always laid back procrastinators.  Now, my W is the opposite of that as is usually the case.

But yeah, the anger and pain (about 85% pain 15% anger) is still there and exacerbated by my kids suffering.

[hobo1]

Thundarr - APD = Avoidant Personality Disorder?

I think so too...  I've read up on that, there really isn't anything anyone can do for that either right?  The APD sufferer knows this, and I've seen support groups for them....  It's basically extremely shyness and low self esteem caused by some childhood trauma or some other trigger?

Have you dealt with this disorder in your work?  Anything I can do to help?  not with the MLC, just with her.... even getting a job.  Surprising she was able to strike it up with OM...

I mean she is not totally anti social....  just difficult for her to make friends is all.