[WarriorPriestess]

Previous thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2119.0

[Thundarr]

W called and texted several times tonight. When I finally called her back, I was very surprised to find her still at the house. She had ordered pizza and basically hung out here all evening. She said D11 wanted to stay home and S7 wanted to go with her, so she said she was going to stay until I got home. She kept dropping hints about the roads getting slick and I really think she was expecting me to ask her to stay but I didn't bite. I will not pursue. She also kept bringing up a movie she really wants to see and kept mentioning she had no one to go with. Again, I did not bite. She finally said she will invite some of the women she works with to go and I left it at that. She talked about tomorrow and seemed really excited. I sense....something, and inside myself I feel different. I cannot explain, but I will wait for her to pursue if it ever happens.

I've dropped the rope and don't worry about blowing it or hitting a home run tomorrow. I will just be me, and she will either want me or she won't. Pray for me.

[HeartsBlessing]

Hey Thundarr,
  My wife and I have been doing things together and having some good times for a year now. There are ups and downs and and this is just going so slow, I have hope but I am still standing back and letting her come to me. I do know that you do not flip a switch and all is back to normal. We are both working towards the same goal but the process is slow. Maybe this is because we are still living together? Hfb

This perspective happens regardless of whether you're living together or not, the crisis is a slow process that is worked through one day at a time, one step at a time.

You've been doing very well, HFB over the past year; and honestly, the slower the process, the more likely it will complete fully.

There is danger in coming through the tunnel too fast at warp speed....ALL issues, and the aspects surrounding each issue must be faced, worked through, settled, and healed within before the crisis can be termed as "past". 

As long as there are issues, the crisis continues; that's just the way it works  It demands completion; plus change, growth and becoming within both people.

No two people who've navigated this trial will ever be the same people they were going in;  and if they are, something's been "missed"; and in a matter of time, the crisis will rear it's ugly head again, picking right up where it left off; and the next experience is worse than the last.

This is because certain cycles were "ingrained" during the time it was put on "hold".

I had this experience; but it wasn't because my husband bargained to put it all on hold...it was because he tried to "bury" one issue, deep within himself.   He'd hoped that he wouldn't have to face it, but it was not to be.  He carried this issue right out of his first crisis, and it resurrected during the time of his Settling Down Process within the first two years after he exited the tunnel back in 2002.

When it caught up with him in the fall of 2004, I was already deep in Transition, myself, and I only caught the signs; but could do nothing about them...I could only handle me at that time.

LOL, my husband "shelved" that issue; and went to work bugging me to death in various ways, not unlike some of the LBS' I've seen here.   He was afraid, and the further I distanced and detached from him, the more frightened he became. 

I had my times of clarity; tried to explain to him that I had work to do within myself, but, honestly, he didn't understand.  In some ways, he actually caused ME to stay in Transition LONGER, because he would not leave me alone.

He kept wanting to know how long it would be(question sounds familiar, right?).  I kept telling I didn't know, and I honestly didn't  know....I had so much being thrown at me, and facing it was time consuming.  I was badly damaged during that time; I had my own issues from childhood, etc. to face.

I did find that my husband was one of my issues; and I worked it out within myself, but I didn't run, hide, nor do anything that dishonored myself nor him.   I just couldn't fall to that kind of temptation, and many nights, I did pray for death; the pain was so bad within myself not to mention the deep depression and withdrawal I was experiencing within.

I cried a LOT during that time; I was very miserable; and it was not my husband's fault, this was within myself.  I don't remember blaming him for what was going on with me, I was just angry because he was pressuring me to 'return' to the person I had once been...and this was the person I had become during his first crisis.

I didn't reattach myself to him all at once, it was a process I went through that started, as I recall, after I took my final issue to him to help me with.  My Intuition had been very active the whole time, and it told me he could help me with it.  And, he did.

I made it through all the way; Menopause first, then the emotional battle, and when it was all said and done, I had been "in" for 7 1/2 years....I came out three years ago in 2009, to find my husband still NOT done...still struggling with the one issue that consisted solely of Replay....the dress matched, the talk matched, and he was self medicating; spending large amounts of money...and I was on the verge of filing a divorce when I clearly saw all of that.

But, you know, the Lord intervened with me once again, just as He'd done so years ago, and the long and the short of it was this:  I spent another year doing as my Intuition/the Lord instructed me to do; and then, I "knew" he was going to be brought down by circumstances.

I got led back here onto the internet in February of 2010; and on the 17th, he fell and broke his ankle, bringing forth even more clearly the 7 year old child who was the issue of his parent's divorce.  This event was the catalyst that brought him out of this for the final time....it took over a year and a half for him to complete the "coming out" within this second bout of crisis.

We worked through the process once again of reconnecting, reconciling, and, eventually, rebuilding our marriage....the latter is STILL a work in progress, you NEVER stop building/rebuilding your marriage.   It won't build itself, and it takes constant work to keep it all together.

But, as of late August of 2011, he was DONE, I am DONE; all that is left is living our lives.

I'm not perfect, he's not perfect, but we have each other; and I can tell you, he's not the same man I knew, and I'm not the same woman he knew.   We grew up together, and are still growing.

I'm very glad for the experience, I learned a great deal out of it.  I have no regrets about having stayed and I'm glad we continued to work it out, although he and I wanted to quit many times.

We are what each other knows and loves; and after 26 years, neither one of us would have another....he and I have both said before that we are "too old" to "train" another; so we stick together, holding hands, walking forward into a really bright future.

No, we don't talk "R" talk, it's not needed unless a major change comes along that's going to affect the both of us.  We just live one day at a time, and we are each other's best friend.

The point of all this is that coming out of the crisis takes a LONG time;  patience, hope, faith, and love are constant virtues that are exercised.

There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse and are willing to stand...I would hope that none of you end up in this as long as I and my husband did; but the journey itself really does depend on the individual going through, and the issues that are within each person they must face for themselves.

No situation is EVER hopeless; hope can be found, even in the worst of times. 

You're going to be just fine, regardless of what the future holds going forward....the road is long, but you can walk/navigate this.  If I can do it, I know you can, too.

Take care,
HB

[Mitzpah]

JUst wanting in on this thread...

[Dontgiveup]

This post is just to emphasize something about MLC that I have learned and believe to be very true.  My desire is for this information from HB and RCR to help each LBS cope and take the focus off the day to day behaviors of their MLCer as much as possible.

the slower the process, the more likely it will complete fully.

There is danger in coming through the tunnel too fast at warp speed

From RCR's article on Acceptance
If your goal is speed, it will fail. But most of you will need to learn that through experience.

and the link to RCR's article Midlife Crisis Takes Time
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_progress_mlc-time.html

[SpecialK]

Sorry for the hijack.....

HB I just want to say thank you.

SKxx

[hopingfourbetter]

 Hi Hb and all,


This was a quote"
  (My wife and I have been doing things together and having some good times for a year now. There are ups and downs and and this is just going so slow, I have hope but I am still standing back and letting her come to me. I do know that you do not flip a switch and all is back to normal. We are both working towards the same goal but the process is slow. Maybe this is because we are still living together? Hfb)

  I agree with the slowness of the process of this, I know that I am not ready, I still have work to do for me. Sadly it is hard to do the work that needs to be done when life continues each day and your focus is always on many different things each and everyday, it is not easy (as I say flip that switch) to focus on just one thing as the world turns.

  I feel my W and I are doing very good, we are not close to where I hope to be but the positives far outweigh the negatives these days. Two days ago I pressed for R talks with my W and boy did that blow up in my face, I did not hear her say what I wanted to hear so I got mad and just and kind of lost it. My W wanted to discuss it but I let the anger get in my head and had to shut down. We talked about it the next day and I apologized. We will be there one day and I hope to enjoy what remains of this journey as much as possible. Hfb

[HeartsBlessing]

the slower the process, the more likely it will complete fully.

There is danger in coming through the tunnel too fast at warp speed....ALL issues, and the aspects surrounding each issue must be faced, worked through, settled, and healed within before the crisis can be termed as "past".

As long as there are issues, the crisis continues; that's just the way it works  It demands completion; plus change, growth and becoming within both people.

Read this entire quote in FULL; finishing the crisis in FULL truly does depend on facing ALL and EVERYTHING.

I faced it ALL when it was me; I got everything I was supposed to get, resolved ALL, and I healed completely within....I don't face recurring bouts of Transition.

You can't hide your head in the sand, and just "wait" on your MLC spouse; you as the LBS have growing, changing and becoming to do, too.

Otherwise, you're going to see some cycling going on within your situation....both people must do what they are called upon to do.

I'm a true advocate of the journey that must be taken by both people; partly because I've been there before, and partly, because I've seen the difference between situations who took the journey, and those who didn't bother; who really thought they could just "get by" without it ....you'll find out for certain as time goes on, and various aspects either drag on, remain the same, or you find yourself "cycling" back around to a place you've been in before, because change was in front of you and you tried to "bypass" it ,or your MLC spouse tried the same thing.


Honestly, you really DON'T have to take my word for it; you'll see what I mean when you get there, whatever type of situation you're in.

I'm not one for throwing out hypotheticals; I do speak of what I know to be true, because I've seen it in writing, or someone has spoken with me about it over time, or I've seen it myself directly.

Hopingfourbetter has really "got this", as you read his recent quote:

  I agree with the slowness of the process of this, I know that I am not ready, I still have work to do for me. Sadly it is hard to do the work that needs to be done when life continues each day and your focus is always on many different things each and everyday, it is not easy (as I say flip that switch) to focus on just one thing as the world turns.

  I feel my W and I are doing very good, we are not close to where I hope to be but the positives far outweigh the negatives these days. Two days ago I pressed for R talks with my W and boy did that blow up in my face, I did not hear her say what I wanted to hear so I got mad and just and kind of lost it. My W wanted to discuss it but I let the anger get in my head and had to shut down. We talked about it the next day and I apologized. We will be there one day and I hope to enjoy what remains of this journey as much as possible. Hfb

HFB, not meaning to single you out,  and embarrass you as such, but you're at a place where what you're writing reflects an actual "good" place in the crisis for both you and your wife at this time.

You're both doing very well, from what you've been describing..and for what it's worth, I can understand getting angry when your wife doesn't tell you what you would want to hear...but rest assured she'll continue to process herself and her state of mind will continue to change for the better as time goes on.

It all takes time, just as the process takes time to complete.

It does come to a point where you realize and become very aware that you cannot just "flip a switch" and everything's automatically going to be all right; although, like you said, the positives begin to outweigh the negatives  in spite the journey left to take for you both.

It's really hard to listen to a person in crisis speak their own truths as they are reflected at various stages of the journey, but understand these will change, given time, and as they mature, and see things in a whole different way over the same aspect of time.

Right or wrong, she is where she is, and you are where you are.

That is also why space is still important to allow the person in crisis to reach their own conclusions, and "R" talks aren't really necessary; these will come as time and the crisis makes its changes within you both.

You can't make someone say or feel what you want them to say or feel; they have to reach this on their own, or not...it's up to them, just as standing, and working on yourself is up to you.

My husband became VERY angry at one point because I didn't "feel" what he thought I should feel; I was struggling very hard with negative feelings, and he didn't give me the same courtesy I had given him....but at the time, I didn't really remember a whole lot of what I had gone through with him, either....I was that consumed with myself...for quite awhile, I saw him as someone was literally driving me crazy with all of the pressure he was exerting on me to tell him I loved him.

He got very upset when I told him I didn't know how I felt; and as emotionally distanced as I was from him, I felt numb and disconnected from his anger, but the pressure I felt directly, and it upset ME.

I did remember telling him in one of the moments of clarity I had that he needed to remember that his feelings had "taken a hike" for a time, and he needed to respect what I felt at that time.

That just scared him worse, and when someone is scared, they get angrier, and don't want to listen.

I always said he didn't walk away from me, just as I didn't walk away from him; each of us had that option at any time, but neither of us took it.

Regardless of all he put me through, I put him through quite a bit of heartache, too, not out of vindictiveness, but because this is the way the Transition/Crisis works; it seems to be a true starting over of growth, change and becoming that occurs within.

Within two years of going into Transition, I'd forgotten what I'd learned before, believe it or not, and looking back, I can see where I was taking the journey once again, but from another aspect.

I was an awful, awful person during that time, and a true emotional mess within myself.....I have spoken of having had as many painful issues as a typical MLC'er, but I never crossed certain lines that would have made my Transition a crisis, but it was a very painful journey for me.

To put it all in a nutshell, I was emotionally, physically, and mentally abused, damaged in various ways during my childhood,  and I had many "children of the issues" that came to visit.  I was severely depressed most of the time.   The pain was so deep, so heart rending and wrenching that I could never get away from it; and I was trying so hard to function in spite of it all, and I had various emotional problems nearly the entire time.

I thought of walking away at one point, starting over somewhere else.    That didn't happen; not that it couldn't have, but I kept being counseled by my Intuition, and our son sat down and talked to me about simply keeping what I had.

I have various memories that come to life at times; not because of guilt, but because the experience taught me a great many aspects that also apply to the crisis.

If I had not faced everything, I would have done as my husband did; had another bout of Transition to catch an aspect left over...but I did get it all.


I never told my husband everything I experienced, and as it stands, I probably never will....part of the forgetting he went through has also encompassed my going through The Change...he really thinks I haven't gone through yet, LOL...said I hadn't got there, that I'm too young for this aspect, LOL.

And no, by not telling all, I didn't "get out of" anything, I still had to face, resolve, and eventually heal myself....so no one really "gets out of it" whether it's spoken of or not.

I saw my husband do some serious facing within the last two years; some of it came out, some of it didn't...

But, even at this time, as I see us both moving forward, the positives continue to outweigh the negatives, as life takes hold, and becomes better as time goes on.

I hope this helps, too.

Love,
HB

[hopingfourbetter]

quoteWithin two years of going into Transition, I'd forgotten what I'd learned before, believe it or not, and looking back, I can see where I was taking the journey once again, but from another aspect./color]

   I relate to this very much I know I am having to relearn and process things that I processed 16 months ago for me it is easy to get things twisted. As my W cycles so did I, the ups and downs and I would hope the ups would stay and slack off on what needed to get done.

  I feel fortunate because my wife does get the process I think, because she says to me I still need work. I really think I could be the one that went off the deep end sometimes or at least I do when she says that to me.  Hfb/color]

[HeartsBlessing]

quoteWithin two years of going into Transition, I'd forgotten what I'd learned before, believe it or not, and looking back, I can see where I was taking the journey once again, but from another aspect./color]

   I relate to this very much I know I am having to relearn and process things that I processed 16 months ago for me it is easy to get things twisted. As my W cycles so did I, the ups and downs and I would hope the ups would stay and slack off on what needed to get done.

  I feel fortunate because my wife does get the process I think, because she says to me I still need work. I really think I could be the one that went off the deep end sometimes or at least I do when she says that to me.  Hfb/color]

HFB,

For what it's worth, I really think the two of you are doing fine; and what your wife said triggered memories of me trying to explain to my husband that I still needed to work within myself, his fear dictated his responses, or more accurately reactions to what I kept trying to tell him.

You know what's going on, and that says a great deal for you.   You're still trying, when maybe others would have given up.

Don't give up; the end will come, and you're seeing yourself in the same kind of light I'd once seen myself in when my husband was so deep within the first crisis....I could have gone off the deep end myself, but didn't.

You know, I can remember posting on DB at one time, wondering if my husband would stay with me if I were acting as erratic as he was.....I found out at that later time, the answer was YES, as he did stay with me in spite of my behavior during my Transition.

Yet, his crisis did, indeed, trigger my transition, but mine would have come anyway, and I know this, as well...I didn't do enough work on me during his crisis, and I had to finish what was started back at that time.

While I don't "owe" him one thing; I know he really DOES love me, and he will always love me, just as I will always love him.   His actions proved his love when I was at my worst.

I said this once, and I'll say it again; the fact my husband didn't leave me hanging said a whole lot for him.   If hanging in there, and hoping for a better day isn't love, I don't know what is.

It doesn't matter that I had to do the bulk of the work to do to bring us both through; somewhere within the both of us, at different times, remained a love that no one could come between.

It didn't look like it a lot of time, owing to the actions on his part at one point, mine at another point, but we committed to one another, and in spite of that happened, we stuck together, and never let go of each other, neither did we lose sight of each other.

So, you figure if the MLC is the worst thing you'll ever face in your life, the fact that you continue walking the road, hoping and having faith that this will end some day; speaks volumes for the both of you who keep right on keeping on in spite of what you see, hear, and experience. 

Take care of yourselves and each other.

Hugs,
HB