[LettingGo]

Just read this..... in our case, my husband and I practiced "attachement parenting" to the nth degree... against ALL advice from peers and even some pediatricians.... it felt NATURAL TO US!!!

Stage 5: The More Successful the Mothering, the More the Dad Pulls Away.
Both mother and father do everything they can to help Mom make and maintain a goodconnection with the baby. But for Dad the more successful the connection, the greater loss hefeels. Not only does he feel the loss of the love and affection his wife had previously given tohim, but it stirs up feelings from the loss he felt growing up without enough love from hismother and father. And since these feelings are generally unconscious, he becomes more andmore depressed, irritable, resentful, and withdrawn.
“Ironically, the better the mother is able to nurture her child, the more likely the father will
be to re-experience his childhood wounding because he sees even more of what he
didn’t get,

And now, this all makes sense. In the end, who the hell cares??? I DID NOT LEAVE!!! I wanted to, but I DIDN'T!!! I feel empathy for a depressed person..... because they aren't in their right minds... but I also wonder.... isn't there ANYONE out there who makes a good partner as an adult and doesn't need "Mommy-ing" from his wife??? In my husband's case, he was absolutely abandoned by both parents in most ways, though they would disagree... in fact, DIVORCE has this effect on children... still the question remains...... how could he leave his own children? And HOW can he lie to their faces about where he is going when he knows FULL WELL that THEY know he is going to the adultery partner's?

For me, I gave OUR children what he desired for them.... a NURTURING BABYHOOD AND CHILDHOOD!!! Their I.Q.'s are high.... their social skills and comfort level is high.... they are well rounded, great kids and wonderful acheivers.... very, very grounded and secure...... EXCEPT..... HE has rocked our world... pulled the rug out from under us.... UNDONE the very security he wanted to GIVE HIS KIDS that HE didn't get!!! Taken away HIS nurturing participation.... STOLEN it from them.... perpetuating his pain into their lives.... when does it stop???

[kikki]

LG - I second everything that you just said.  That struck a chord with me too. 
I even remember my H's first bout of mild crisis a few years earlier, and he admitted that he was jealous of our boys.  I had no idea what was going on with him, and just thought what a selfish, immature g*t he had turned into.  I couldn't understand it.

And now, this all makes sense. In the end, who the hell cares??? I DID NOT LEAVE!!! I wanted to, but I DIDN'T!!! I feel empathy for a depressed person..... because they aren't in their right minds... but I also wonder.... isn't there ANYONE out there who makes a good partner as an adult and doesn't need "Mommy-ing" from his wife???

It's all more than depressing isn't it.  I can't help looking at all men and wonder what is going on inside their heads these days. I'm sure that's a little unfair, but this thing does take its toll.
Apologies to the extraordinary men here on the forum, I know you are a different breed altogether.

I'm with you on the fact that who the heck really cares - these people have chosen to leave and inflict unbelievable pain on those that love them the most.  How selfish!

[JAG]

Wow,

This is exactly my H.  He was only raised by his mother.  His father was present, but only for the $$.  His father didn't want kids and when they found out they were going to have a kid, he told his wife....if you keep it, it is your responsibility.  He never held, helped or did anything for his son if not sign the checks for his schooling and take him along on business trips....he was never a father.  My H always had a bad relationship or rather, no relationship, with his dad.  He said he wanted his kids to have a young and good dad (something he didn't have).  And look at him now, abandoning a newborn and an 18 month old! So....what do I tell him "at least your dad stuck around....you are worst then him".  He and everyone always commented on how great a mother I was....just like this paragraph states....this stirred up his own feelings of loss....well....there is nothing to be done with that....he will never get over that....the cycle is not going to stop. 

[Stillpraying]

LG...Well said.
 I feel the same as you all have posted above.
My H HATES his father who passed away 3 years ago.  Blames my dad, who passed away 7 years ago, for making me the sort of wife who doesn't know how to love a husband as a wife should.
Won't speak to his mother or sister.
Told me I am a great mother but then says I use the kids as pawns.
When they were younger, also told me he felt left out and was jealous.  This was at the same time he complained that I woke him when I got up to feed them at night and so I ended up in the spare bed or the couch for much of the time we had the 4 kids.  I thought it was temporary but ............
I have felt he wanted me to be his mummy (buy him expensive gifts, hug him when he was sick, be the nurse and bring everything to him while caring for 3 boys) but now he also hates me like he hates her.

[JD]

Just read this..... in our case, my husband and I practiced "attachement parenting" to the nth degree... against ALL advice from peers and even some pediatricians.... it felt NATURAL TO US!!!

Stage 5: The More Successful the Mothering, the More the Dad Pulls Away.
Both mother and father do everything they can to help Mom make and maintain a goodconnection with the baby. But for Dad the more successful the connection, the greater loss hefeels. Not only does he feel the loss of the love and affection his wife had previously given tohim, but it stirs up feelings from the loss he felt growing up without enough love from hismother and father. And since these feelings are generally unconscious, he becomes more andmore depressed, irritable, resentful, and withdrawn.
“Ironically, the better the mother is able to nurture her child, the more likely the father will
be to re-experience his childhood wounding because he sees even more of what he
didn’t get,

And now, this all makes sense. In the end, who the hell cares??? I DID NOT LEAVE!!! I wanted to, but I DIDN'T!!! I feel empathy for a depressed person..... because they aren't in their right minds... but I also wonder.... isn't there ANYONE out there who makes a good partner as an adult and doesn't need "Mommy-ing" from his wife??? In my husband's case, he was absolutely abandoned by both parents in most ways, though they would disagree... in fact, DIVORCE has this effect on children... still the question remains...... how could he leave his own children? And HOW can he lie to their faces about where he is going when he knows FULL WELL that THEY know he is going to the adultery partner's?

For me, I gave OUR children what he desired for them.... a NURTURING BABYHOOD AND CHILDHOOD!!! Their I.Q.'s are high.... their social skills and comfort level is high.... they are well rounded, great kids and wonderful acheivers.... very, very grounded and secure...... EXCEPT..... HE has rocked our world... pulled the rug out from under us.... UNDONE the very security he wanted to GIVE HIS KIDS that HE didn't get!!! Taken away HIS nurturing participation.... STOLEN it from them.... perpetuating his pain into their lives.... when does it stop???

Wow LG, I could have written this. Except my spouse does not apparently have an alienator.
You took the words right out of my head.

[smileonmyface]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120924175209.htm

You can find different forms of the same study all over. 

I definitely see this in my sitch.   

[iamnottheenemy]

Interesting.  I see it too. Silly me, I tried to hint that antidepressants might help H with his anger and irritability.  The response I got is that he's not angry and not depressed.  Or so he thinks.

[Trustandlove]

Oh, mine said in his last 'nasty' letter that he was absolutely not depressed or having a mid-life crisis....

[NewAttitude]

In my opinion, most people do not want to admit to any depression or 'mental illness' whatsoever.  No matter what people say or do, there is a stigma against it and no matter how often an anti-depressant is pushed as 'normal' the people with depression feel an incredible loss of self eteem to have this.  I also do not trust the chemical changes in the brains that anti-depressants do.  I do not believe one should change brain chemicals with toxins but instead change it internally or with food choices. 

That being said, there is a huge stigma to say you are depressed or anxious.  I am not surprised that guilt or depression etc are underidentified and not admitted to.

Frankly, I also think bad economies in addition to aging and questioning life choices leads people to feel like their life or their choices were bad.  I think some people blame people and some blame society and some just try to ignore it by pretending it doesn't exist.  Heck.  I made the worst decision in my 20s to pick the field I did when I really wanted another.  (It was part of the sexism back then when there were 'womens' jobs' or 'mens' jobs.'  However, I never regret marrying my H even though there have been times when I am sure he regrets marrying me!

Regardless, I say that because that is an example of regret that might lead me to feeling depressed.  My H has his own issues or regrets.  I pray to God that I am not on his regret list, even though I think I am and that tought is depressing!

[NewAttitude]

Is a competitive person or a 'perfectionist' more likely to experience MLC?  Would this also lead to them not admitting they are depressed or guilty feeling?