[FindingJoJo]

I think it isn't re-writing history at all but since one of our first steps as LBSers is to take care of ourselves and heal one can't help but to evaluate the marriage.  I have been reading the book conflict free living and in doing so I found that my pride during my marriage was causing strife in our marriage, it was humbling to say the least when I realized that our marital conflicts weren't all his fault and my pride of being stoic and the "normal" one in the relationship isn't something that I want to grow out of control.  My H is hurting, I can't help him but I can make sure that when he comes home I have fixed my own issues and the worst thing about this is discovering that I have some (just kidding), but I have been evaluating myself alot lately and quite frankly I want to be all that I can be, not for him but so that I can be a happier person and be healthy.  I pray that he comes home but mostly I pray that he is healing, okay and can open his eyes to God's love.  I do feel peace now heck haven't been anxious for at least 4 days in a row ....lol.  This post helped me see the other side more than any other post and helped me to understand him that much more and the why of things.  Right now I am trying to become more humble, which is pretty darn hard when you are perfect........(another joke).  Thanks for this forum and God Bless.

[Dontgiveup]

It seems to me that it was/is an inability to see or recognise her part in the life we'd built and the choices she'd and we'd made and that nobody forced things on us, nobody deliberately made people move away, nobody died to make us feel bad on purpose, it was all just, well, life.

Well, yes.  What you describe seems to be a lack of coping skills.  Lack of coping skills are brought to the forefront by MLC.

But she couldn't and wouldn't see that.

This is caused by the MLC.  Here's something from RCR.
And what MLCer is going to do that? Conscious decision making is not part of MLC—if they make conscientious decisions it’s not MLC. If they choose to not avoid; it’s not MLC.

[Thundarr]

The conscientious decision part is what I struggle with as my W does seem to be thinking things through before she makes decisions.  She may well be in denial about how her actions are hurting and continue to hurt the kids and yes she never seems to understand why S7 doesn't want to stay with her.  But, she seems to be following the path of someone who is recovering from a bad relationship and moving on with their lives.  Our contact has gradually become less and less over the past few months and she appears to be working toward a "clean break" just like most divorcing spouses do.  I often think I'm the one who is not getting it and is in denial (bet I'm not the only one here guilty of that!) and begin to tell myself that I should also begin acting like any regular divorcing spouse.  I'm not so sure some flaws are correctable anyway and perhaps if she never gets to be okay with those of mine that she put up with for 21 years then what is the point anyway?  I know I'm rambling but I'm running on dealing with too much caffeine when I should be sleeping.  LOL

[superdog]

I really liked this article and thank OP for putting it here for us to read.

I don't think any LBS can even contemplate truly what this lady was asking for during replay of their spouse. It's impossible, unless we too were dead inside or hopelessly selfish people.  How many times have you been told that's exactly what you are ! But we are NOT and that is why our H's and W's married us.

I also liked the the quote from arp1. about lack of coping skills. My H believes he never gets cut a break in life because bad things seem to always happen to HIM. I hope one day he'll get that the little white picket fence and the imagery of "the Waltons family" is what it is a fantasy where real life doesn't happen. He may even get to the point where he associates his lack of coping skills through MLC with the past 21 or even 44 years.

Conscious decisions - hmm.. well taking a decision and acting on it may be "normal", taking certain decisions out of not being able to cope any other way, thereby not adding logic etc to the mix, changing your mind about those decisions on a daily/hourly basis. That's definitely MLC.

Putting pride, anger, vengence out of the way in order to create an environment of safety. Well each and every one of us wants to hear heartfelt sorries from our spouses and we deserve to hear them, no matter what happens to the R. Self fulfilling prophecy if you believe you're never going to get it and create an environment where it can't be said to you. IMHO.
Not being niave, it takes a very long time to get this bit !

SD x

[OldPilot]

I am taking the time to read AmyC's thread and posts that seem helpful.
Since there are over 12,000 of them it might take a while but I will post them if I think they might help.
This one may be more difficult to read as it was in a quote box with black and red type as two different people.
Amy is Red
Dadnotquitting in Black

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=30304&Number=1080560#Post1080560

"Amy,

So you went through this yourself?
Yes.
What I'm wondering, is how cognitive is an MLCer to what they are experiencing?
Not much. It is mass confusion, fueled by anger that runs so deep it never seems to be far away. The term "hairpin trigger" comes to mind... MLCers can be vicious on a good day. Anger is the root, confusion is what we will never in hell admit to, exhaustion is what eventually derails us and we find ourselves looking back at the destruction caused by our own hand.
It is almost impossible for me to comprehend that they don't see any of it, none at all?
See what exactly? We know we're b*tches from hell but what we DON'T fully comprehend is WHY. It takes a long time for that to begin to come clear. MLC is rooted in unresolved issues, aging and thinking about possible things we might have missed out on, thoughts of 'what I might be able to do if I left this bullsh*t behind...after all, I'm only getting older'... it is rooted in the mundane things we do everyday and no one notices anymore. We might have woken up and realized we have no identity other than "wife and mother" and everything inside us starts screaming PAY ATTENTION TO ME. You most likely don't see much of that internal stuff until it overflows in the form of anger that has you looking at us like our heads just spun around on our shoulders because you asked if, while we're out, we can pick you up something at the store (or something equally stupid). So there it is. The anger and confusion that has festered is now fullblown MLC and you're about to start sleeping with one eye open for however long you stay under the same roof.

When my wife spews her rage, vitriol and makes horrible comments to me (I wish you were dead. Then my problems would be over) she just HAS to know what she is saying is so wrong, you just don't say that to anyone.
Agreed. That is excessively hateful. But I will admit to you that although I never said it, God forgive me, I THOUGHT things like that when I was in MLC. And I KNOW that even having not said the words outloud, my EVERY action conveyed that thought to my husband regularly.

Also, if MLC really started long before I saw the signs, is there any way to determine that?
I know what you're doing. You want to construct a timeline to give yourself some reasonable idea as to how far she is into this thing. PLEASE do yourself a favor, SCREW THE TIMELINE IDEA.
I know that two years ago, I got the first "I need some space to sort this out" line, and that was six months after he mother passed away. Then, a month or two later she had her fling, big shopping sprees, her own illnesses (major migraines, seizures, hospitalized three times). It was a rocky road for us since then until the bomb on Christmas Eve '06. Did her MLC timeline begin two years ago?

My wife was all those things you describe; appeared happy (as much as she could be), great mother, pretty good wife, co-existing and working towards common goals. Is the death of her mother (a wound not yet healed) the "something" that happened?
 It could definitely be the trigger that got her looking at her life and realizing her dissatisfaction, which by the way, has ALWAYS been a part of her so don't let yourself think it's your fault.
 Did our not-always-so-great relationship between then and "I need some space" act as a trigger, the "thing in her mind"?
Again, mom's death probably kicked off the mental aspect. Until the day she had that talk with you though, it was an internal thing only, I suspect. But in that time, her mind worked her over. By the time she voiced those things to you, she was in MLC, if that is indeed the conclusion you have rightfully come to.

And she doesn't think she is happy, she KNOWS.
So did I.
At least that is what she is telling me and the kids (and anyone else that will listen). She tells me she hates me (that hurts bad) and does believe our marriage has held her back not only from happiness, but of finding her "soul mate" (oh puke).

And nothing, nothing at all can reach her? Amy, did you have family and friends (not H) pulling you aside for any reality checks?
I had every single person absolutely convinced that I knew what I was doing. I had so deluded myself, that everyone else fell right into line supporting me.
Did they see what was going on, and now in retrospect, accuratley lay it out in front of you as to what you were doing and how you were acting? No one had a clue. Only since coming out of MLC and WALKING BACK have I told the story in it's entirety to my family. My mother, grandmother, aunt, sister...they ALL know what MLC is now. But they never knew I was so screwed up.

Did they tell you that you have your head up your a** and you're the only one that can't see how silly this is? And if so, it meant nothing to you?
I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that there was NOTHING ANYONE could have said to me that would have moved me. As an example, right smack dab in the middle of my MLC, while practicing adultery, I sat my self-righteous butt in church and my Pastor pointed his finger straight at me one day during an altar call and he said to me "how long are you going to sit there?" He had been talking about letting the enemy influence us and destroy our families from within. At the time this happened, not one soul knew I was having an affair. Not one soul. I got called out, IN CHURCH, by a man that I had so much respect for, KNEW God had sent into my life the year before, and yet when he stood there that day, I didn't move a muscle. That is very telling of the grip the enemy had on me and I didn't even realize it. It is interesting to me that I basically lost my mind within a year of darkening the doorway of a church for the first time ever in my whole life. I got involved there, having felt "led" to that teacher for some reason.... 6 years later I know why. It's because every tool he gave me during that first year, I have had to use mightily in order to be able to stand for my marriage.

What happened the day you decided to "work it out on your own"?
Oh sweetheart, I didn't "decide" to work it out on my own.
Was it gradual, or just a sudden slap in the face, an epiphany?
It was gradual and yet very dramatic. I had begun to work at a law firm where one of the attorneys represented children often involved in nasty custody battles and the other attorney practiced mostly bankruptcy law. Between the kids, which tore me apart, and one particular couple that was filing for bankruptcy and yet exhibited SUCH AMAZING DEVOTION to one another, my eyes began to open to the state of my own family. Another HUGE thing that occured was I ended up one day on the scene of a motorcycle accident in which the man laid in the ditch and died with me sitting there beside him. There were other very significant things that occured over a period of months but when I fully awoke, it put me literally on my face in devastation. I could not endure the pain of the realization of what I had done, the role I had played in the destruction of my family. I could not hardly breathe having the knowledge of what I'd done to a man that had loved me, not perfectly, but so utterly completely. Coming OUT of MLC would have surely been the death of me had it not been for the grace of God. The guilt, shame and horror were SOOOOO oppressive...

If you have a link to any of this (I can't find it) can you please copy it here so I can read up?
Surely I have at least 25 threads or so by now. I started the first one in October 2005. I will see what I can find.
 What did your husband do during all this?
Bless his heart, for 2 years he stood and fought like hell to save us. It was not until he let go, that I started my painfully slow journey back. Interestingly, I signed separation papers last October and moved out of our home in December. Since then, we have become closer than ever and had several very significant breakthroughs. The latest one was just tonight.

Lots of questions from me here, but the more I read about all this, the more it scares me and braces me for the hellish pain I may have to endure.
Don't be afraid. Find out rightquick what you believe in and why you choose to stand. You're going to have to remind yourself of that alot in the months to come.


God bless."



Edited by OldPilot for carriage returns and bold and readability 6/9/2012
This was originally posted on 6/3/2007

[FindingJoJo]

Thank you for posting that and it is nice to have a candid Q&A especially for us newbies. 

[c3po]

Thank you for posting this.  I have been doing a lot of soul searching lately, and have been coming to the realization that I need to be someone that BF will feel safe and comfortable coming home to.  If I continue to harbor anger, we will never be any closer to reconciliation.  In actuality I am not angry at him.  I am angry at the choices he made, but what happened has happened.  I can't change it.  But I can change my attitudes about the situation.  Ultimately I want him back in my life.  Don't get me wrong....there is a lot of work he would have to do.  But I can and will meet him in a common place where we can both rebuild our relationship is that is what is meant to be.  I know there are two sides to every story, and I can only know my side with certainty.  Hopefully one day BF will be able to share his side as well.

[Trustandlove]

That is so moving; thank you for posting it, OP.  I know it's a woman writing and therefore a bit different than what men go through (yes, I do think there is some kind of difference), but on the whole it is so applicable to the whole mess.

[Rollercoasterider]

And DNQ--Dadnotquitting was a tough case--he was so stubborn and most of us felt like we were beating out heads against a brick wall when dealing with him.
He insisted on dating and wanted to keep throwing money at the situation to solve it--he was well-off financially. He even sent me an email that asked about counseling with MWD herself--he wanted to fly his wife out for the few day sessions for couples--couple and her, not grou--she offered. The cost: several thousand dollars--maybe upt to 10K.
Everything from him was a out his desperation and solving it NOW.

AmyC was a great resource. You may also see the occasional posts by Happy_Again--and he had a few identities later like Happy Incognito or something. He was another MLCer. His first name was Finally_Free and he changed it--he reconciled with his wife. Happy posted a lot when he first arrived--he was in MLC and came to Monster at us! But he was near the end--perhaps HB's Acceptance where the MLCer returns to the stages to shut the door on them--because I think it was only 6 months after his arrival when he moved home. But he gor bombarded with so many request for insight and advice that it was overwhelming--something like 3 threads in a matter of days when he started a thread for people to come and ask him questions.

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you SO much for posting that.  Not just a window, but the fourth wall removed!

If I continue to harbor anger, we will never be any closer to reconciliation.

I think sometimes it's easy to feel like ultimately in order to get through this we must repress our feelings of anger forever and just move on, which just isn't the case.  It's all about finding the right *time* to deal with it all.  And in the midst of their crisis, we're not going to get the release and closure on our own emotions we need - they're not capable of hearing us.  If we can delay, we'll have our day, and it will be with the person who can not only hear, but heal with us.

What she said about coming out both gradually and suddenly I can see.  My H leaving was my bottoming out in my own crisis, and my life has been different from that day.  But I remember after BD#2 there being a calm that came over me that I can only feel was my awakening, and it was like someone breaking an egg over my head that initally was a shock, but took more effect as it dripped down over time.  Within a week my 92 year old neighbor had a life-threatening accident, and I was the first on the scene. Seeing him like that and being the one that needed to get emergency care for him put life in perspective.  More and more I see that God puts that in the paths of many MLC'ers.  I don't think that's coincidence.