[since_youve_been_gone]

Hi Thundarr

When you put it like that, no they wouldn't.

SYBG

[Mermaid]

The whole idea of MLC has been around for a long time, and since 1965 Jung has been talked about and discussed. It was described as a concept in 1965 by Jaques, and has been in popular fiction ever since (songs, film and pop-psychology). Erikson included MLC in his theory of personality development.

Psychologists are no different to any other mainstream scientists/doctors.  They stick with what they know and with what is written in their DMV manual.  MLC is not a condition found in the DMV manual and so it is not part of their bag of diagnostic tools. It’s that simple - as a person who has spent her life in scientific methodology it takes a very unique scientist to break the mould and think outside the box.  Most scientists/doctors are limited by their training. 

My psychotherapist and psychologist friends  are familiar with Erikson, Jung and others. They have years of clinical experience, and as intelligent, reflective practitioners, and not "trained" but "educated" to look for evidence and solutions. Scientific methodology doesn't mean think inside the box, but looking for supporting evidence, rather than relying on hearsay and folk wisdom.

The problem is that MLC is NOT a single identifiable mental disease. We talk about it as if it is, but it is not. We look for signs and similarities between our spouses, and explain away the differences, but these collections of behaviours are not the same thing at all. There has been research about the verifiability of MLC, and the result is that there isn't enough evidence for it.

There are spouses here whose behaviour suggests personality disorder, or even psychosis. Sometimes this behaviour has been going on for years and reaches a crisis point because of the unstable nature of the disorders. On the other hand, some psychotic behaviour may be triggered by drink/ drugs, neurological disorders, internal or external events, including severe stress.

• There are cases in which the spouse is inherently unstable, despite having outwardly shown stability for some time.
• There are cases in which the spouse has been married for years, others who have only been married for a short time.
• There are cases in which the spouse has apparently been happily married, and then appear to change suddenly, others in which there has been a build up for some time.
• There are cases in which the spouse is young, or old, so the crisis is not about midlife at all.
• There are some in which the spouse is depressed, outwardly or covertly, others who are not.
• There are major differences, in behaviour and in outcome.

This doesn't mean we are imagining anything; as we all know only too well, us LBS face real problems and shocks. It doesn't mean that this website is invalid. It gives us useful tools to defend/ rebuild ourselves, a community of support, and a way of explaining things so they make sense to us. But when we talk about stages, tunnels, liminality, etc, we are using metaphors which help us to navigate our social world.

Of course, there are many ways that a therapist can help an individual deal with this, and individual values come into this. Some would not encourage a LBS to stand for their marriage when it is abusive and counterproductive to individual growth. Mine encouraged me to face the different possible outcomes, and to focus on myself rather than explaining away my H's aberrant behaviour. A pretty wise approach, I think.

At the end of the day, if you are looking for a therapist who will just go along with what you believe, why get a therapist? On the other hand, if you truly don't gel with your therapist and trust them, it's time to get a new therapist.

BTW, we discussed MLC sometime ago, here: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=191.msg4948#msg4948
Personality disorders here: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2209.msg130015#msg130015
An article about one type of crisis: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg17890#msg17890

 

[Dontgiveup]

Since my belief is MLC is emotional and developmental, I don't think therapy would be of use until toward the end of the crisis.  MLC is something that must be gone through.  I think RCR's article "A Midlife Metaphor" gives a good synopsis of this.

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_midlife-metaphor.html

[Mermaid]

It's the LBS who needs the therapy!!1

[c3po]

As Thundarr mentioned, MLC is not something that is taught in school.  I too have a degree in counseling, and I feel as ill prepared to deal with this as the next person.  Even if MLC were a diagnosable condition, it wouldn't change the nature of it.  Anything that is in the DSM-IV is merely a detailing of collections of common symptoms existing along a continuum of human behavior.  It is a means of understanding maladaptive behaviors.  MLC is just uncharted territory for all of us. 

At the beginning, I did go to a therapist seeking to find some answers.  For me it was a less than helpful experience as I don't think he was a big proponent of the concept of MLC.  Again, MLC is not something he would have studied or necessarily had experience with.  He was nice and supportive, but feel that he was afraid of dumbing things down too much for me since I also work in the profession.  I think I find better support here from others who are going through this journey as well.  We all come from different backgrounds and walks of life, but we all share similar emotions in this regard.  At the end of the day, the job of a therapist isn't to fix us or our MLCers.  Their job is to support us on our journey and help us as we seek the answers we are looking for. 

[Mermaid]

As Thundarr mentioned, MLC is not something that is taught in school.... MLC is just uncharted territory for all of us. 

What evidence do you have that MLC is one thing? Where's the science?

At the end of the day, the job of a therapist isn't to fix us or our MLCers.  Their job is to support us on our journey and help us as we seek the answers we are looking for. 

Absolutely agree. It's a hard job, because sometimes we want something we cannot have, cannot face the situation as it is, or we are asking the wrong questions. I was lucky enough to have a good psychotherapist, but it seems some are not so lucky. She also told me my adaptation to the situation was good, but sometimes I wonder. There are so many emotions that we hide from ourselves, and that come out later. Still, we go on...

[calamity]

Mermaid said, 'What evidence do you have that MLC is one thing? Where's the science?'.  That's what's been bothering me all along. 

My therapist never mentioned mlc or anything else.  She of course focused on me.  She did say, did he [my h] know that he was a train wreck?  That was a huge relief to me, to know that it was obvious that his behaviour was questionable at best.

[honour]

How come therapists do not recognise MLC?

Would it help if they did?
What we should be asking psychologists, psychiatrist and the like is: what is emotional health, what does emotional health look like, how does it behave and how do we achieve it? Then if the behaviour patterns we recognize as MLC do not agree with the "scientists" description of emotional health then the therapists would recognize MLC as an illness or disorder. So we just need a definitive answer from the experts as to what emotional and mental health is. Be prepared to wait.

The mental health experts are very good at coming up with labels for disorders and deciding "what's wrong", the DSM is enormous. But it is all negative. What we need is a Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Health.

I'm no psychologist but when my W left she was definitely manifesting symptoms of LAD...Lying Adultery Disorder.

honour

[Anjae]

How come therapists do not recognise MLC?

Would it help if they did?

Yes, it would. Because then, like with other health conditions, psychiatric or not, social services, GPs, legal system, lawyers, society would be aware of it and mechanisms of support for LBS, when needed, would be put to use. There are support mechanisms for families of alcoholics, drug addicts, people with heart condition, etc. but none to the spouse or family of a MLCer.

[OldPilot]

There are support mechanisms for families of alcoholics, drug addicts, people with heart condition, etc. but none to the spouse or family of a MLCer.

So what do you think we are doing here?