[OldPilot]

I tried to follow it; I got a bit confused -- did someone say that AmyC didn't reconcile after all?  That her H was an alcoholic?  That puts a different twist on things as well.

Yes that is true,
why does that put a diiferent twist on her MLC?

I think the insight is still the same.

[Doc Hudson]

OP, maybe, maybe not.  In fact, I would guess that her calling her husband an alcoholic sounds just like MLC spew.  "Oh, our marriage didn't fail because I was a wh*re who publically humiliated her husband for years on end.  No, it was because he was an alcoholic.  Poor me."  And even if this guy started to drink a little bit more than he should, I can't EVER imagine how that started.  This all just smacks of a typical female MLCr.  In fact, this storyline overwhelmingly bolsters what I have said all along that 98-99% of female MLCrs never reconcile.  The destruction is just too massive and all that was ever good about them is gone.  Forever.  Male MLCr reconciliation stories are about 10-20 times more likely.  Moreover, I know of NO RECONCILIATIONS with female MLCrs once the kids are 18+.  None.

[OldPilot]

OP, maybe, maybe not.  In fact, I would guess that her calling her husband an alcoholic sounds just like MLC spew.  "Oh, our marriage didn't fail because I was a wh*re who publically humiliated her husband for years on end.  No, it was because he was an alcoholic.  Poor me."  And even if this guy started to drink a little bit more than he should, I can't EVER imagine how that started.  This all just smacks of a typical female MLCr.  In fact, this storyline overwhelmingly bolsters what I have said all along that 98-99% of female MLCrs never reconcile.  The destruction is just too massive and all that was ever good about them is gone.  Forever.  Male MLCr reconciliation stories are about 10-20 times more likely.  Moreover, I know of NO RECONCILIATIONS with female MLCrs once the kids are 18+.  None.

WOW Doc, there are over 6000 posts from her, have you read them?
I have and I do not read what you are writing into any of them.
I guess I can blame YOU for YOUR wife's MLC too.

Sorry I am not buying what you are selling.

I was just reading another DB story about M Go Blue.
He turned his wife down from reconnecting because he was involved with another woman who he then married.

We all have paths to walk and decisions to make, I am sorry that there is destruction in your marriage.
But you have choices too, as do most men.

Maybe there are no female reconcilations because most men walk away and never look back.

[RivenIN2]

I was just reading another DB story about M Go Blue.
He turned his wife down from reconnecting because he was involved with another woman who he then married.

We all have paths to walk and decisions to make, I am sorry that there is destruction in your marriage.
But you have choices too, as do most men.

Maybe there are no female reconcilations because most men walk away and never look back.

OldPilot with male divorcee suicide rates three times that of the rest of the male population there may not even be a husband to go back to. But to further that line of thought it is the males who tend to remarry more quickly also having been in a committed relationship they crave it and will seek it out much sooner then the female LBS. So there is also less chance for reconcilliation. It is a complex issue but I do not feel the female MLCer is forever damaged beyond coming back, at least I really and truly hope not.

[Doc Hudson]

It is a complex issue but I do not feel the female MLCer is forever damaged beyond coming back, at least I really and truly hope not.

Forever damaged?  Absolutely.  No one can do what they have done and go unscathed.  I mean, imagine 'waking up' one day and realizing that you just shot 71 people in a movie theatre, wrote "Healter Skelter" on the wall with the blood of a pregnant lady (yes, that's how they spelled it), or orchestrated the deaths of over 6 million people.  Evil is evil.  How do you look at yourself in the mirror after doing something evil?  I don't know, but I think that being forever damaged is implied.  Furthermore, how do you trust YOURSELF?  You know, we spend a lot of time thinking about how we are going to trust THEM, but we spend very little time thinking about how they will be able to trust themselves.  Imagine that.  Not being able to trust yourself to do the right thing.

Putting that aside, the real issue, to me, is the chasm that is created between the LBS and MLCr during this process.  More specifically, the LBS, if they use this time correctly, grows exponentially and leaves the MLCr behind in their stunted, immature state.  Even if the MLCr 'wakes up', they are probably a very unsuitable mate for the LBS as a result and a fulfilling relationship between the two is unlikely (although not impossible).  That's the whole purpose of the OM/OW, they can have a relationship with someone who is just as defective, immature, and stunted as they are, if not more so.

[Anjae]

I have not read all AmyC posts. But I don’t like the tone of the ones I have read. She sounds like a desperate MLCer.

Her husband may or may not be an alcoholic before her crisis. If he was, the question should be why did she wanted to reconcile with a man in such state?

AmyC crisis was a crisis and that is not changed. If the husband was an alcoholic could that had been a trigger? I do not know but it is possible. If he was not an alcoholic before his wife crisis is an understandable reason to become one but it is also something that can put off someone who has been thought MLC. Yes, they did all the wrong things but the last thing they need is a spouse with troubles. That is why the LBS has to become strong.

Doc, from what I see on this board, female MLCers do return, even after they have married the OM. DGU does not have kids and his wife if reaporaching him. DGU friend, whose wife had married OM also has no kids and the wife wants to reconcile. One of the males here (I don’t remember which one) had a male friend that was engaged to a lady and broke off the engagement because his MLCer had returned.

OP, judging by this board many males do wait and look back. Otherwise, none of you gentlemen would be stating and no male MLCer would return.

Riven2, I think the high male suicide rate because of divorce is even more frequent if the divorced man was a MLCer. Male MLCers, having hit rock bottom are prone to suicide. The risk is especially high for those very troubled MLCers who will not have the LBS waiting for them.

[Doc Hudson]

Doc, from what I see on this board, female MLCers do return, even after they have married the OM. DGU does not have kids and his wife if reaporaching him. DGU friend, whose wife had married OM also has no kids and the wife wants to reconcile. One of the males here (I don’t remember which one) had a male friend that was engaged to a lady and broke off the engagement because his MLCer had returned.

I don't doubt this at all.  That's just the 2%.  Even then, how many of these are SUCCESFUL reconciliations.  By that I mean, there's more to a reconciliation than just showing up at the door with a sad face.  There could be a multitude of reasons for doing that other than reconcilation, especially dealing with an MLCr.  Cash and an empty bank account comes to mind.

[trusting]

I don't think that AmyC ever "blames" her MLC on her H's alcoholism.  They are two separate issues.  It may have been a trigger, who knows.  She does identify childhood issues behind her MLC. 

Putting that aside, the real issue, to me, is the chasm that is created between the LBS and MLCr during this process.  More specifically, the LBS, if they use this time correctly, grows exponentially and leaves the MLCr behind in their stunted, immature state.

I believe this in part is why reconciliation is so difficult.  We are light years ahead of them emotionally at the end of the crisis, I think.  They have regressed and we have grown.  What you will "put up" with and the effort you are willing to put into it is a very individual decision. 

I do think that maybe there are not as many female MLC reconciliation stories is because men are generally more likely to move on faster.  Also, it does seem that generally female MLCers push through with a divorce much faster than most males.  I am not sure the reason behind that (maybe because women are more emotionally driven?), but based only on observation that seems to be the case in general. 

[StandandDeliver]

Hi all it has been a while, but I do like to check out progress on the site from time to time. Doc H, I understand what you are saying, but what the female MLCer does is no worse than what the male MLCer does, and I try very hard to not use words like ow (or whatever the male equivalent for emotional and physical infidelity is) when describing the actions of my MLCer. And I have ended my stand. I still get occasional feelings of anger, that world condones this sort of dumping of families so that a person can seek thrills in someone elses arms. But I also think, how terribly sad that my ex is in a place where he thinks that a relationship with someone that he really barely knew when he decided to screw around was what he needed, above working out our problems for the sake of our historical bond and friendship and love (and of course for our kids).

I have ended my stand, and I have moved forward without any hopes or desires or plans to reconcile. One day I hope to find someone capable of a more mature and true type of love, one that is not based purely on a hormonal response and a desire for no emotional responsibility. I think you are right about one thing, I can see clearly that the 20 something that my ex left me for IS much more of a similar emotional maturity level with him than I am. I have progressed beyond that, as one is meant to do as one leaves their early adulthood behind. Which is one reason that I feel it would be very hard to go back. However, I am also aware that I cannot go forward, on my own, or with someone else, if I filled with anger, hate or sadness. I truly think a new relationship will happen for me, when I have really let go of all vestiges of those intensely negative and blame-filled emotions. So, you may be right about the process of moving on - we all must choose eventually the conditions under which a reconciliation could take place and then make an assessment of the likelihood of those things happening. I think many male LBS just decide EARLIER not to stand, closing the window of time.

I can see why you would be cynical about the reasons someone would come back, but honestly in the midst of MLC, it doesnt matter HOW broke a person is, they do not want to return (more likely to move back in with parents than go to the LBS, I think), so I think that if they want to return, more often than not (if it is MLC and not just a WAS) they probably have made some sort of decision that is not about financial stability.

[OldPilot]

I will quote what M Go Blue said about reconnection
he did go through his own MLC too BTW.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=888347&page=3

I agree with you that many MLC spouses do attempt to return. We may not see it, as what we believe an attempt to reconnect would look like, is far different than what their attempt is percieved by us.

Our beliefs and expectations of reconnecting probably play a role to some degree why there are less reconnections than there could be.

Time is another major player in reconnection and probably the biggest reason more MLC spouses do not get back together with the LBS. Going through MLC takes years and the LBS grows tired of standing still with their life hoping for a return of their wayward spouse.

For most LBS, they grow and evolve from their spouses MLC and come to realize that their happiness doesn't depend on whether they reconnect with thier MLC spouse. They learn to eventually set themselves free.

Again his wife tried and was denied by him