[Thundarr]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annulment_(Catholic_Church)

General info about annulments.

http://therecordarchlou.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/annulments-are-commonly-misunderstood/

Substantial info about how the Catholic views on annulments are becoming more liberal and the process to get one becoming less work.

I read that second article and one before it in our local Catholic newspaper and was just appalled at the statements of how the church was making it easier to get an annulment because the old form was "too difficult to fill out."  It blows my mind that all you have to do is fill out a form, pay a fee and wait to hear back from the Tribunal as to whether or not your marriage never happened.  Let me rephrase that - it completely pisses me off!  To think that my marriage of 19 + years (or, as Limitless says, does this last year even count?) could be so easily disposed of not only in the courts but in the church I grew up in.  Our beautiful wedding can just be undone in such a way that it's almost like the last 21 years never existed.  What has happened to commitment, vows, integrity in our society? 

I know this topic will elicit strong responses from many of us here who are of the Catholic faith but I think something needs to be done.  This smacks of liberalizing as a way to either bring more people in to the church or to keep people coming back.  Disgusting.  What's next?  Abortion will be okay as long as you sign a form saying the couple didn't really want to get pregnant?

[Anjae]

I’m not a Catholic, Thudarr, but I live in a Catholic country. Maybe in the US annulments will become easy to get with the new rules but the article you post says “120 or so couples who seek the declaration each year.” That is not much. Let alone for a country with as many people as the US. As you know some marriages are not valid and can, and should, be declared null and void.
There is also this:  “The process to determine if a marriage bond was formed is not an easy one, Father Beach noted. The process includes an investigation and proceeds in some ways the way a court does, he said. Evidence is collected and ultimately several canon lawyers judge the merits of the case to determine whether or not the couple entered into a valid marriage at the time of the wedding.” Even with the new rules an annulment may not be that easy to get. Don’t think the Vatican will be pleased if the Tribunal will start declaring marriage annulments like there is no tomorrow…
As for this “What has happened to commitment, vows, integrity in our society? “ even if a divorce is not the same as Annulment, divorce rates among Catholics are as high as among other people. And they have been for long. Don’t know what is the solution for this. Think it involves too many factors and there is no simple answer.

Would say they are trying to bring more people into the  Catholic Church. Here, even if people are Catholics because it is the tradition, few really have a serious faith, there is a shortage of priests and churches are often empty. Catholic Church is considered, in Europe, to be too rigid and old fashioned and it has been loosing many, many people.

“Our beautiful wedding can just be undone in such a way that it's almost like the last 21 years never existed.” In a way, Thundarr, our MLCers are already done that.

Do you think your wife will look for an annulment?...

[Heart to Heart]

Thundarr,
Interesting how people can view an issue from two totally different angles.  I am a diehard Catholic.  The way I see it, annulment has nothing to do with stopping the divorce from going through or making it easier for him to make this decision.  If my H wants a divorce in this state of confusion and crisis, I doubt seriously he has even thought about  getting an annulment…he just wants out.  I on the other hand, would be furious if I am not allowed to remarry someday and continue to be a part of the church I dearly love because I can’t get an annulment…and he’s the one who cheated!  Frankly, I'd happy to hear it won’t be as difficult.  The only one who will be punished in my family is me. My H has moved to a new area, a new church...who is to know his history? BTW, this is the first I’ve heard the process is becoming more liberal. I still think it will not be an easy process.

The way it was explained to me by my pastor is that marriage is to be Christ-like: unconditional, faithful and forever.  My love for my H was absolutely unconditional, faithful and forever.  Obviously his wasn’t.

H2H

[Thundarr]

The 120 was for my state alone, Anne.  It would appear they are trying to increase that number.

I don't know that my W will seek one, but I may depending on what transpires.  I have been told by a priest friend who used to sit on the Tribunal that I have grounds.

What country are you in, Anne?

[Anjae]

Thanks for the info on the number of annulments, Thundarr. Yes, you probably have grounds for an annulment.

But I agree with H2H, I would not like to not be allowed to marry on my Church because my husband had a MLC and filled for divorce, leaving me divorced.

I’m in Portugal. It’s a little less deeply Catholic country than Spain or Italy. 

[Dontgiveup]

Thundarr

You brought up the subject of annulment in your thread about a year ago.  Here was part of RCR's response to you in your thread.

Sorry, but I’m already on my soapbox, so I might as well get comfy here. I’m Lutheran, so I’m coming from that perspective—not Roman Catholic.
Annulment in the Roman Catholic Church in America is a joke and an embarrassment to Rome. So you really want to use that as your excuse and defense? Do you truly believe that God agrees with the instution that is the church? Did He agree with Johanne Tetzel selling indulgences too? What are you first, Christian or Roman Catholic?

You are using the church’s policy as another excuse. Did your vows include exception clauses for church policy? Technically the church has to go back to the moment of those vows…so Sweetheart and I spent a year planning our wedding, but that counts for nothing if he had been drunk when he spoke the vows. The Roman Catholic Church believes in maintaining some policies because they are a tradition—history and yet our shared history had no meaning. Well, since I am not Roman Catholic it had no meaning anyway…but that’s different. (Sweetheart was raised Roman Catholic)

I am not anti Roman Catholic. I’m a very Catholic Lutheran, but the American church’s policy on marriage damages families and it sickens me when people use it to justify breaking a ‘til death and for better or for worse promise.

[xyzcf]

Thundaar, I am quite furious at you! Did you even read what the criteria is for an annulment? 
IT HASN'T CHANGED! Perhaps the forms used are changing, but according to the article, the conditions are the same as they have always been.

I was in a real MARRIAGE  for 33 years years, we both willingly entered into this union, it was consummated and according to the Catholic Church..I CANNOT get an annulment according to the criteria as listed in the article which you posted.

In reality, he said, an annulment is the Church's way of declaring that at the time of the wedding, a marriage — the way the church defines marriage — never took place.

That relationship, as the church sees it, has four fundamental principles. The marriage is understood to be permanent, a partnership of equals, open to children and exclusive (the couple promise to be faithful to one another).

My Beloved and I agreed at the time of our marriage to these conditions. Had I been forced into marrying him (like what occurs with some cultures) I would have some grounds...but I was neither forced nor coerced.

Had he been insane or mentally incompetent, I could petition for an annulment...there are very few reasons for a true annulment to be given so you do NOT just

fill out a form, pay a fee and wait to hear back from the Tribunal as to whether or not your marriage never happened

.

This is not the case and never has been.
 

An annulment may be declared when “at the time of the wedding, at the exchange of consent, one of these fundamental things was missing

If you want to justify some reason to leave your marriage then find what ever it is that makes you feel that it's ok...but don't try turning around what the bible clearly says and what the Catholic Church stands for and has always stood for.

Corinthians 7:10-11

To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.
But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

Exactly what part of this is unclear to you Thundaar?

RCR edited to correct quote brackets--but I think they were still intended to come through differently than they are now too.

[Covenant for Life]

Mark 10

New International Version (NIV)
Divorce

10 Jesus then left that place and went into the region of Judea and across the Jordan. Again crowds of people came to him, and as was his custom, he taught them.

2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”

3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.

4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”


And, in I Corinthians 7, Paul tells us what Jesus commands once a separation/divorce occurs:

10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

If you are a believer, Christ's commands to us are clear.  My own Lutheran church has come up with loopholes and reasons galore that are NOT Biblical reasons for divorce.  Read the Word.  The Catholic Church's annulment policy is man-made.  I don't care if the Pope in Vatican City approves drive through annulments, Jesus doesn't.

And, RCR is right on.  The so called body of Christ is more to blame for the divorce rate in this country than are secular laws.  As soon as the divorce train started to pick up speed around 50 years ago in this country, the church should have derailed it.  Not only didn't the church stop the train, but  they jumped on board and started to come up with all kinds of reasons that were never allowed before to divorce.  Even the clergy thought this was an awesome ride.  Pastors today as a profession have the second highest divorce rate in the country.

Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday,and tomorrow.  He doesn't change.  Heaven and earth will pass away but His Word lives on forever.

[xyzcf]

the Pope in Vatican City approves drive through annulments,

The Pope does NOT approve annulments except in very specific cases as listed above.

[Covenant for Life]

xyzcf,

I was trying to be sarcastic in pointing out all of the ridiculous reasons that even Christians try to use to justify divorce/remarriage.  I was not trying to be disrespectful of the Catholic religion.

It just bothers me so much when Christ followers allow man made religion to debase the Word of God.