[stayed]

I found this very helpful, 100% my H, it explains much:

1. Real remorse means seeing the pain you caused someone, and reaching out to make it better. Feeling bad for the person in pain.
A person who feels guilt rather than remorse sees the pain of others (that they inflicted) as judgment, condemnation, and feels bad for themselves. What they feel for the person in pain is anger - anger for showing them what they don't want to see (the consequences of their actions).
2. Someone who feels remorse for doing a bad thing will always consider the thing they did to be bad.
Bad feelings associated with guilt are situational, and change with circumstances.
3. Someone really remorseful doesn't want to repeat a harmful action - they aren't even tempted to. Real remorse means never doing it again, self accountability.
Someone who feels guilty can still repeat the actions causing the guilt, precisely to escape the guilt. The only way to end feelings of guilt is self accountability - guilt happens when someone runs from it.
4. Remorse says "I'm sorry I hurt you".
Guilt says "stop making me feel bad for what I did".
5. Remorse cares more about the one wounded. They don't care about others holding them accountable because they already hold themselves accountable.
Guilt worries more about how the wounded one makes them appear in the eyes of others. They feel their self image is being attacked. They do worry about others holding them accountable because they shirk self accountability.
6. Remorse means learning from one's harmful actions.
Guilt means not even facing what one has done, so learning from it isn't likely.
7. Remorse means leaving the harmful actions one did in the past, but not forgetting them.
Guilt carries harmful actions around, keeping them ever present, by attempting to avoid dealing with them. They will always be ever present, a thorn in ones side, looming large and affecting one's life until faced and dealt with. This is self inflicted torture - although a person struggling with guilt will blame others.
8. Remorse leads to the ability to forgive the self.
Guilt leads to self hatred.
9. Remorse is action, actively doing something about the harm one caused.
Guilt is feeling self pity and doing nothing about the harm one caused.

[Covenant for Life]

Stayed,

WOW.  That is a powerful piece.  Too bad many of us whose spouses are still in MLC cannot sent that as a truth dart.

Just curious, has your H read that?  What was his reaction?

[stayed]

Funny CforLife, I never even bothered to show it to him.  I read it, and went WOW!  I watched my h battle his way from guilt to remorse, fearing the whole way, that he would never make it.  Although I did not have such a clearly stated difference between the two, I totally RECOGNIZED it when my h finally got there.

I found this posted by somebody who does not wish to have their name posted on the main forum.  It was on TrustingMyHP's thread.  I had never seen it laid out quite like that before.  I wish it had been available when my h and I were reconciling. 

I think it will be very helpful for those that are reconnecting/reconciling.  Once you know what to look for, it is glaringly obvious whether they are truly remorseful or fooling you by appearing to feel guilty. 

hugs Stayed

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Thanks, I printed that out for me.

[Ready2Transform]

This is actually a great wake up call for me personally about the EA I had 13 years ago before we were married that my H brought up last year.  I was very guilty about it, but I know now I was never properly remorseful.  Something for me to work on, and hopefully us when the time is right.

[FindingJoJo]

Interesting article - Funny thing is I received a text today from H telling me he was an idiot and he is getting tired of putting me through hell and he loves me.  Only time will tell if that is remorse or guilt.  He also asked for forgiveness (something he hasn't done until today).  I don't know I am very leery about clinging boomerang activity though.  It is something to look at though and use to evaluate somethings.

[Sassyone]

Wow powerful!

[underpressure]

Really thinking about this one. It's terrible how much I stuck myself in the guilt stage out of fear and anger toward my H (when my affair was discovered). And it's also amazing how quickly my guilt went away and my ability to forgive myself kicked in once I finally saw that I had hurt my H. For some time I think I didn't believe he COULD be hurt. And when I understood that I had hurt him I moved out of defense into remorse.

Or so I certainly hope. Life is hard.

[NoRegrets]

Yes, yes, yes, stayed!!!

I've known this from the very early days after BD. People would ask me, "Do you think you'd ever take him back?"

I've known that IF I were to ever take him back, and that would be a BIG "IF," there would be a condition of remorse and restitution. Because I don't believe in forgiveness without both of those things.

I may move on and choose to not have anything to do with xH, I may decide that I don't really care that much for or about him, but I won't forgive him without remorse and restitution.

And I've always known that remorse would be able to tell me HOW he hurt me--describe the ways he'd hurt me. As in, "Gosh, you must have felt very alone/frightened/sad about what I did to you. I love you so much that I am sad I ever made YOU feel that way." It would not say, "I feel really bad, you must hate me, I'm a loser, please forgive me." There's a big difference.

After BD he'd say, "Well of course I can't imagine how you feel--I'm not you." Or, "You put way too much emphasis on fairness." The man  has no capacity for empathy. Until such time as he feels and expresses genuine pain for what he did to me and to my children, and considers the specific ways he hurt me, then I will not trust him to actually LOVE me.

[stayed]

And I've always known that remorse would be able to tell me HOW he hurt me--describe the ways he'd hurt me. As in, "Gosh, you must have felt very alone/frightened/sad about what I did to you. I love you so much that I am sad I ever made YOU feel that way." It would not say, "I feel really bad, you must hate me, I'm a loser, please forgive me." There's a big difference.

That is exactly how it was too.  My h finally was saying things like, "it must have been terrible for you, how did you stand it, you must have felt so alone, I am so sorry Stayed, I can't believe I could do that to you".   

Even when we were first reconciling, I could tell his REGRET/remorse/guilt was all about him... "you are never going to let this go, are you?  I can't bare to go down that road Stayed, it makes me so bad about myself".  All of his pity was for himself.  Facing what he had done, made him feel badly about himself, and he felt ANGRY that I held his "TOES TO THE FIRE"... as I was not going to accept anything less then full ownership of his action/behaviour/comments/the works... any guilt would eventually become something to beat me up for later, hold against me, for making him LOOK BAD.

He did that all by himself.  He didn't need any help from me.  Instead, the "light" went on for him.  I don't think it was ONE specific incident that brought about TRUE REMORSE... I don't think it is ever just one thing... but he got there.

I think that may be what the ones that are RECONNECTING now, are feeling is missing.  Their spouses feel guilt, are becoming angry with their LBS'er for making them feel guilty, instead of moving towards SINCERE REMORSE. 

hugs Stayed