[crazyjourney]

Hi Stayed

Thank you for putting this here for us all to read, very helpfull.

Also would just like to add I have recently been reading through your early posts and they have given me a lot of insight and help, I can now see things going back over several years, the intermittent cycling at the very beginning that at the time I wasnt even aware of, just thought h was getting a bit grumpy in his old age lol, boy did I ever not know what was on its way

Thanks again CrazyJ x

[stayed]

20/20 HINDSIGHT Crazyjourney!  Looking back I can't believe I MISSED it!  As I have always said, "can we say DENIAL"? MLCer's are not the only ones who go a bit bat$h!tecrazy!

hugs Stayed

[HeyJude]

Hi Stayed..i found something similar and thought i would share..it was amongst the many many quotes, books, research etc i have gathered over the 2 plus years..i think my H has had insights but not enough to really 'do' something about what he's done! As though keeping away and finding 'new' experiences is going to fix it for him - so doesn't care about me. I think when he sees me he continues to feel guilty and so "I" make him feel bad and he hasn't really got it yet (and i have on occassion pointed it out to him) the difference between guilt/regret and remorse. I found this on another site. from the Betrayer to Betrayed Spouse:

"When confronted by my BS on dday, I immediately felt regret. Regret for having been careless enough to get caught. Regret for the pain my BS was in, regret for the shame I felt. It was as if I was disconnected from my real feelings and was only able to feel things only in relation to how it affected me. Regret is being sorry for something you've done, but not necessarily taking action to make amends. One can feel sorry that their BS is hurting without doing a single thing to comfort them or help them recover. Regret is a feeling that is momentary and can be easily suppressed, especially if you are someone who compartmentalizes. Regret is passive.

Remorse, on the other hand, is active. Remorse comes when you, as the betrayer, feel compassion for your BS. It is when you are willing to do whatever it takes to help your partner heal. Remorse is selfless. Remorse asks, 'what more can I do to help you?' Your BS needs to see that you understand their pain. When you feel remorse, you realize that you'd do anything- literally anything- to take away your loved one's pain. In other words- you "get it." Remorse allows you to take responsibility for your bad choices and is necessary for recovery and reconciliation. Don't be passive in your healing. Regret is not enough. Take ACTION! "

[stayed]

Remorse, on the other hand, is active. Remorse comes when you, as the betrayer, feel compassion for your BS. It is when you are willing to do whatever it takes to help your partner heal. Remorse is selfless. Remorse asks, 'what more can I do to help you?' Your BS needs to see that you understand their pain. When you feel remorse, you realize that you'd do anything- literally anything- to take away your loved one's pain. In other words- you "get it." Remorse allows you to take responsibility for your bad choices and is necessary for recovery and reconciliation. Don't be passive in your healing. Regret is not enough. Take ACTION! "

I love this Hey Jude!  It is EXACTLY 100% correct.  That is REMORSE.  When we first reconciled, I couldn't put my finger on what was missing, but damn I knew something was.  If only I had a description of REMORSE like this, some pain and suffering just might have been prevented.  Mind you, who knows... nothing in this affliction happens until the MLCer is ready to embrace what they did and take 100% responsibility for it. 

Until then, we shall just have to hold onto each other.

hugs Stayed....

[dbpb]

This makes so much sense. I have been divorced very long time. My ex said a couple of times that "he was sorry he hurt me", and although I heard some regret in his voice, I never felt/heard any true remorse. That is what has been missing and that is what I have wanted to actually see and hear.
Although we are friendly, I still would like to see some true remorse. I don't know why except maybe it would be some kind of validation of me.

[stayed]

I can understand you wanting that dbpb!  Some just can not own their actions.  Cannot think beyond their own selfish needs.  Some, just honestly don't feel true regret/remorse.  How sad is that eh? 

Perhaps in time, your spouse will be able to do this one little thing for you.  I hope so, you deserve at least that.

hugs Stayed

[wondering]

Thanks Stayed.  It definitely confirms for me that my H feels guilt but no real remorse.  I guess that's just where his head is still at. It is still all about him. He really struggles to not deal with  how I must feel. I guess at this stage he just can't. I wonder whether some personality types never get to the remorse stage.

[stayed]

I wonder whether some personality types never get to the remorse stage.

I have no idea wondering!  I really hope they are able to feel true remorse, can't think of any worse way to live out my life.  To do something like this to a person/family/kids that truly loved me and feel no regret/remorse for having DESTROYED their faith in me, is just sad!

hugs Stayed

[Sassyone]

Wondering:

I feel that remorse comes when they can feel and see the damage that they have done to us.  In my personal situation when I was having a bad day I saw remorse all over my H.  He hurts when I hurt and he hurts because he hurt me and he can't fix it.  I think remorse comes when they are fully out of replay, through OW withdrawal and committing back to the relationship.  It took time, but all I can say is you will know it when you see it, you will actually feel it.  It isn't so much in the words (although they certainly count), it is more in the action (at least for me) when I am cycling.  Not once has he asked me to get over it and move on (oh he would like me to for sure), he is always there to answer my questions, reassure me and apologize again if I need it.  I know that my cycling hurts him because I am hurting (if that makes sense).  For your H Wondering, he is still so wrapped up in himself.  You are doing fantastic and your H is progressing at a good clip.  Keep the faith girlie.

If your spouses were remorseful previous to their MLC, I really feel like they have the capacity and in time will feel remorse.

Hugs,

Sassy

[stayed]

True Sassyone, when we first reconciled, he kept saying stuff like, "I'm not dwelling on this, like you, I am moving on.  I just want to move on.  You are never going to stop beating me up about this." etc. etc.  Now, he never does.  He doesn't take offense when I ask him something that you people ask me about... or if I get upset.  Or if he is late getting home and I look at him closely... he gives me a hug and says, "I know what you are thinking... I know it our places were reversed, I'd always be needing your reassurance". 

You will know it for sure... hugs Stayed