[whatever]

I'm NOT standing but I did stand for awhile...up until my divorce.  But...that doesn't mean that
I didn't mean my vows.  I read a lot of people are standing because to quote them "I meant
my vows"  I meant mine too...my h did not.  I originally, like a lot of people on this discussion,
misunderstood what standing was at first.  Thought it was to get my h to come back...but in
the process of standing I realized that standing was for me to get myself together without
the complications of another relationship in the way.  I HAVE gotten myself together and
although love and forgiveness aren't weaknesses I don't feel like I need to stand anymore.
I don't want to stand.  I want to move on with my life.  If h wants me back (although at this
point it doesn't look like it) he will have to work on himself and become a different person
because I don't like the person he is now.  And he would have to pursue me.  In the mean-
time I'm living my life and being open to relationships that are healthy and honest...I deserve
that...I don't NEED it...I deserve it, and if it doesn't happen I'm just fine by myself.

[Rollercoasterider]

I really appreciated RCR's explanation of the Stockdale Paradox and why it is well-suited for Standing.

I may just start pointing people to that explanation.

Thanks. I was honestly quite surprised to see someone explaining how we go against the Stockdale Paradox when to me we are perfect examples of conforming to it!
 

I originally, like a lot of people on this discussion, misunderstood what standing was at first. Thought it was to get my h to come back...but in the process of standing I realized that standing was for me to get myself together without the complications of another relationship in the way.

I don't think that thinking Standing is to get a spouse forward (instead of back) is really an incorrect idea; that is what pulls people in the door. But it is more than that and the more comes with acceptance of the journey and Mirror-Work. Reconciliation becomes a byproduct of the journey--even if it remains the BIG GOAL at the end of the rainbow. It's not a goal you work toward directly--you get there by doing the other stuff--Mirror-Work, GAL, living your own life and celebrating it. And if you choose to stop Standing with acceptance and joy in your heart...then YAY you have made it and good for you. Now having Acceptance and joy does not mean you are without pain and anger either. The end of your marriage may still be sad, but life is still joyous because you are choosing joy.

[OldPilot]

I was honestly quite surprised to see someone explaining how we go against the Stockdale Paradox when to me we are perfect examples of conforming to it!

Well you were reading the worst of the group.....
 

I originally, like a lot of people on this discussion, misunderstood what standing was at first. Thought it was to get my h to come back...but in the process of standing I realized that standing was for me to get myself together without the complications of another relationship in the way.

I don't think that thinking Standing is to get a spouse forward (instead of back) is really an incorrect idea; that is what pulls people in the door. But it is more than that and the more comes with acceptance of the journey and Mirror-Work. Reconciliation becomes a byproduct of the journey--even if it remains the BIG GOAL at the end of the rainbow. It's not a goal you work toward directly--you get there by doing the other stuff--Mirror-Work, GAL, living your own life and celebrating it. And if you choose to stop Standing with acceptance and joy in your heart...then YAY you have made it and good for you. Now having Acceptance and joy does not mean you are without pain and anger either. The end of your marriage may still be sad, but life is still joyous because you are choosing joy.

This is also quite good!
Thanks for that!

[leftylulu]

I am glad I chose to stand. What started out about him has turned into a journey to finding myself. The road has been long and hard but I certainly am grateful for who I have become because of the journey. I have never felt more satisfied, joyous, or content in my life.

It's helped me to let go of all outcomes on everything and just let life happen. It's seems to be more exciting because everyday is a new day that is bright and wonderful.

Would I like for him to come home? Certainly but nothing in my life is dependent on him coming home. I'm heading into year number 4 of NC so really it doesn't matter one way or the other. I know that eventually I will have a lasting love that is based on honesty, integrity, and maturity. I won't settle for anything less.

Being single has done me good. I've taken care of my baggage, I've dealt with my FOO stuff, and I've repaired relationships, and I've rid myself of relationships that do not reflect on who I am.

Right now I'm working on changing careers so that I can do more meaningful work. I don't need a job because I have one so I'm in no hurry to find one but I am actively looking. I think it helps me to not get frustrated after all I've learned a great deal of patience.

I have found that if I put my faith in God he will bring me the right job at the right time. The one He wants me to have because it will be a purposeful career. The one that puts my gifts to use. I have seen Him work in ways that I have never seem so I leave it up to Him to do what best for me. I have the utmost faith that my life will turn out exactly how it was meant to if I stay out of my own way.

I finally feel at peace.

[BirdSoul]

So there really is no definite right answer....  You stand for yourself.  There are no guarantees.  My guess is that many of them are so ashamed at what they've done, they prefer not to see you because you remind them of their actions.  You know what they've done.

I think they would need to be sure that they would be forgiven and are still loved before they would be willing to even consider coming back.

Hi Hobo,

Agreed. No guarantees. And I know in my heart there is shame and extreme avoidance in my H's actions (yes, just like in the book). As I am sure is quite evident I am still working through my anger, so it will be awhile before I can get to forgiveness.

Hugs to you.

Peace to all Standers and nonStanders,

Bird

[1994]

Bump...

My IC notes that standing is a great way to heal and become ready to be a fantastic spouse.   10 years from now we need peace that we tried it all and work through improvements.

Standing also creates a healing time delay if D is the option.

He commented that functioning standers become the most healthy of his client cases

[stayed]

I think they would need to be sure that they would be forgiven and are still loved before they would be willing to even consider coming back.

I don't think that is fair.  I don't think we can ever TRULY know what we can or cannot forgive until we actually are entrusted with the situation to try.  Why would you give anybody a guarantee of something there is no way of knowing you can actually do?  Honestly, I had no idea whether I could forgive my h.  I am not certain I have TOTALLY forgiven him, even yet.  I am usually a very forgiving person, I can not remember the last GRUDGE I carried against anybody... but this has been MUCH, MUCH MORE DIFFICULT then I ever would have envisioned.  There are many layers of forgiveness.  Trust has been violated and trying to find a new definition for trust, is an obstacle in and of itself.

Don't be too quick to make assumptions, no matter how loving, caring, forgiving you have been in the past.  In fact, I'm not sure our spouses would trust us if we were to just UNCONDITIONALLY forgive them.  I don't think they would have much respect for us, even in a recovered state, I think they would see us as weak and pathetic... not loving and caring. 

In my opinion nobody should make PROMISES they do not know for sure, they can keep.  This is not the NORMAL sort of "bad monkey"!  I forgive you totally thing. 

hugs Stayed

[Still Kicking]

For me, forgiving them and trusting them again would be two separate things.    Maybe some must feel that they can be forgiven before they dare return and try to earn back trust. 

[stayed]

To me... and I only speak for myself... the returning MLC has to take a risk or two as well.  We are taking a risk on them and whether they can ever be trusted again.  Yes, we can forgive them in a superficial way, especially if they just carry on and are too CHICKEN to even apologize for all the pain and grief they have caused.  I can forgive that.  I can forgive somebody for being a spineless loser. 

That being said, I really wasn't sure how much I was ABLE to forgive.  I assumed I could forgive and get on with it... easy!  Huh... I guess I just never had anything this HUMUNGOUS to forgive, before. 

For me, I didn't and I am glad I didn't, give him any guarantee's that we could make this work.  I thought we could, we had been great partners before, so no reason why we couldn't be again but honestly, I had not expected it to be as difficult as it was.

Perhaps you folks that have been on this forum for a while, might find it easier.  You are prepared for it a bit more then I was.  I ONLY know what it was like for me.  I was surprised at how much pain and anger I had buried.  It has to come out at some point.

Hugs Stayed

[Still Kicking]

Forgiving isn't something someone HAS to to.  It is very difficult to explain but it doesn't seem to work as something you tell yourself you are obligated to do and you work on it.  It is something that seems to come out of the blue after you have worked through your own pain and gotten to a point where you see that life can go on and there is still joy in it.  Plus you realize that we all do things that hurt people and tend to perpetuate hurts that have been inflicted on us.

The resentment seems to evaporate and you just get this feeling of release toward the offending person.  I know people more studied than I have written entire books on it so I don't dare think I can explain it.   It is not meant as a free ride for the offending person.  Some can't find forgiveness without an apology first.  But when it happens it does give a freedom to the offended person from living life filled with resentment and anger and there seems to be some miraculous side effects for the offender, too.   But we are humans and not the higher power so it is a bit more difficult for us to  carry out.