[Sassyone]

This made me think about Sassyone's H:

We talked a lot this weekend about depression and replay.  He told me it was a stimulant that he was constantly looking for like a high of sorts.  He also said it didn't matter if it was a good stimulant (i.e. sex, ow) or bad stimulant (fights with OW, me, the kids), he needed the adrenaline high.  It really made me see why the monstering part was so volatile . . . he needed his fix.  He also explained how when he knew the ADs were working and his brain would clear and he could think. 

I wonder if he needed these "stimulants"  just to feel anything at all.

OMJ, yes that is exactly what he said.  He felt dead inside.

Hugs,

Sassy

[honour]

In my view the crisis magnifies the Shadow, augmenting ones faults, and creating much more guilt than the previous existing one. And it will leave people forever regretting what they have done. In that sense, it does not take any guilt away, let alone if the MLCer end up without the spouse and the marriage.

A person who had done what our MLCers have done may be burdened with it forever. I find what they do (to us and themselves) too much of a high price to pay to become a better and stronger person.

I have to agree Anne. The writings and views of James Hollis make me feel uneasy.

honour

[kikki]

A person who had done what our MLCers have done may be burdened with it forever. I find what they do (to us and themselves) too much of a high price to pay to become a better and stronger person.

I agree too Anne. Healing if they're one of the ones to get through it - but at what price?

[Anjae]

A person who had done what our MLCers have done may be burdened with it forever. I find what they do (to us and themselves) too much of a high price to pay to become a better and stronger person.

I agree too Anne. Healing if they're one of the ones to get through it - but at what price?

I don't know, Kikki... I guess we all have to wait and see. And we may have to wait many years...

[FinallyGettingThere]

I know depression is a very real part of MLC, I've read all the stories and articles.

But my H's family are all on antidepressants, (two of three sisters and his mother) so I'm sure its genetic in his family.  He started displaying signs of depression around 2003-2004 when I was going to be having major surgery.  He was very upset, weepy, and stressed out.  He thought it was just due to my upcoming surgery.  But he went on antidepressants, I had my surgery and came out of it really well.  He was feeling better and not worried about me anymore so he went off the pills.  He then had a minor heart attack in 2006, about two years after my surgery (he was 42 at the time).  Between 2003-2006 he was having some problems in the bedroom, we thought maybe prostate problems, but turns out when he saw a specialist that everything was OK there.  After his heart attack things went from not great to bad, even Viagra or any of the other pres meds he tried didn't work.  I was trying to be supportive and reassuring him and not pressuring him in any way.  I just didn't realize what was going on.  Now looking back I think he's been clinical depressed.  Our family doctor is convinced he's clinically depressed.  But he refuses to go on any more meds as he's already blaming all the meds he takes for his heart condition on how crappy he feels.

So in February 2011 when I confronted him about what I think was a friendship leading up to the start of an emotional affair with a 24 yr old girl at his work.  I realized how depressed he was.  But everything just hit the fan and the fighting started in what has always been a really great marriage.  We usually don't fight.   

He ended up moving out temporarily to get some counselling and try and figure out what he was going to do.  Always maintaining that he thought he still loved me.  He moved into his mom's place and he's still there almost two years later.

So the biggest thing I want to know.  Is what he's going thru really MLC or is it clinical depression.  Is it possible to work thru the MLC tunnel if he refuses to go on meds?  He doesn't really seem to cycle or monster the way some people describe.  Since I'm almost at year two I'm trying to figure out where he's at in his MLC, if that is what he's having.  Or since his depression started so long ago is this really MLC?  I'm thinking that he might have just been depressed before he moved out in 2011.  But when I started pushing that he needed counselling and antidepressants is that what pushed him into MLC, when he started in denial.  I know he did say two years ago that he just wanted to run away, get into the truck and just drive and keep driving.   

I know some of you might say does it really matter?  And that by my trying to figure out what's going on I'm not detaching and letting go. 

But I just have these questions and since I do value everyone's opinion and I think all of you and this website are helping me.  I just really wanted to ask.   


RCR edited to change topic icon.

[Ready2Transform]

Just my opinion:  it sounds MLC to me, but I think the depression is woven into it.  My husband comes from a family full of depression, substance abuse, and outright insanity.  He was originally diagnosed with and treated for Bipolar Disorder and then downgraded to Generalized Anxiety, but ultimately went off of all of his antidepressent and antipsychotic meds cold turkey and has become somewhat of an alcoholic throughout his crisis.  He too suffered from ED issues (low testosterone can be the culprit, but the meds can too - there's a great audio link posted on kikki's latest thread that's an interview with John Gray that goes deeper into that). 

I think his suppression of these issues has lead to his crisis, but that the natural process of the "perfect storm" will balance him physically, emotionally, spiritually, and biochemically (if he allows it to).  When he was on meds, it helped slow down the super fast thoughts and kept him generally more content.  When he got talk therapy, it helped with the emotional issues.  When he meditates, he seems more spiritually sound.  But none of these things stopped his crisis, even when he was doing them in the prescribed way.  There are few of the reconnection stories here that involve any medication or therapy as the root of their healing, so I think it definitely does happen without them.

In my own MLC/MLT, I took a lot of supplements when I started returning to myself.  But I don't believe the supplements were the key - I didn't WANT to take them until I had a change in my thinking that once again cared about nurturing and healing myself.  I had to get to that point before I could make more positive choices - but that point did come.

[FindingJoJo]

That is the point ready2 isn't it.  Until anyone gets to the point of wanting to make positive choices nothing else they try will work until the pain if remaining where they are becomes so great they need the change.

[OldPilot]

MLC is more complicated than just clinical depression, IMHO.
It does get confusing because one thing about mental illness is DENIAL.

But I would say that the ingredients that go into MLC are hormonal depression(or some hormonal event, menopause, andropause, post partom, etc), childhood issues and some sort of trigger event.(Death, illness, empty nest, birth of child etc.).
Many times the depression is MASKED depression but other times it is OVERT(obvious) depression.
Midlife itself brings tremendous pressure to our bodies.
The weakest areas are attacked by our own bodies.
So those that are marginally depressed can become clinicially depressed.
I had bad knees as a teenager and now at older age that is being attacked.
You see cancer cropping up in many middle aged people.
All of these events are not a coincindence IMHO.
It is part of biology and life.

So those with clinical depression will have magnified results in midlife.
I have a cousin who is a in his mid fifties who had depression when he was younger.
I am watching him closely to see what happens to him and his marriage as he and his wife get older.
So far for them, so good.
So based on that I theorize that not all clinical depressions end in MLC.
But all MLC does have depression.
Same thing could be said for menopause.

I will think about this and see if I have any more to add to this later.

[kikki]

I would agree with that OP, absolutely

[Anjae]

Also agree with OP.