[Rollercoasterider]

I want to post but will admit that I have only scanned this thread. But given Thundarr's initial post on the thread I do want top say something.
First--an aside. Have you read all the controversy on DSM V? Quite interesting!
Okay onto my comment...
I often find myself not really contradicting, but saying things that may seem or feel as though I am contradicting what others are advising--when I am coaching or when I post on a thread. I think the common problem we all have is that sometimes we generalize and make assumptions when someone is new.
Assumption #1 is that this is MLC and so we base our comments and warnings on it being MLC. Instead of doing that, use IF phrases. So let them know what this might be like if it is MLC. I follow a lot of infidelity blogs--the sort that are journals for betrayed spouses as they heal their marriages. New ones are popping up all the time in the circle I follow and these are recent discoveries. Few of them seem to follow me though--I'm not listed on their blogrolls, though a few reference and recommend me.
Why?
I think because of the gap. Most of them are not MLC. But if they had come to this forum first or instead of going to the blog journals and starting their own, they might have been told all this scary stuff about it taking years. They would then tell us that their "MLCer" has agreed to counseling and is going and has ended the affair and is showing remorse and is agreeing to transparency... And we might post skeptical comments to them because we are still putting their non-MLC spouse in the MLC box--and since their spouse may be in the age range and maybe the triggers match pieces fit.
This was a problem at Divorcebusting when I was there as well--since I was pretty much exclusively on the MLC board. We automatically assumed MLC and then pigeonholed the LBS. Of course we are going to lean toward MLC around here--I mean it is an MLCforum by name. But that doesn't mean it is MLC and we all need to understand that there are a ton of infidelity situations that are not MLC and some of them are here.
The gap is that those infidelity bloggers are often in reconciliation and recovery with a willing partner. That is a big (HUGE) deal. It's where you all want to be someday. They are dealing with different issues though. They are in the same place as newbies here in that many are in their stress response phase because discovery was recent. But it's different for them because of the lack of a gap between recovery and discovery. There are challenges they are facing that you are not and vice versa. When you get to the marital recovery phase you will be more detached than they are now and so you will be less sensitive (less, not immune) to triggering and flashbacks. You will have done the screaming and dealt with Monster and learned diffusion skills before coming together again. So the recovery phase may be smoother (maybe or maybe not). It was certainly smoother for me than what I see these betrayed spouses going through.
So in that you have an advantage, but of course the greatest advantage would be if there were no gap and we could have the advantage of the detachment and diffusion skills, but [sigh] that's not how it works.
 
There is one of those posters out there who fits us more than most of the other infidelity blogs. She has been advised to come here and I've have commented as well and I don't think she's visited yet--and if she has, she's only lurked. I worry about her--PM me if you'd like to reach out and I'll send you to her blog.
 
Sometimes what works in one situation is the opposite of what may work in another, or what works on one day is the opposite of what may work in another.
Ex. I am not a fan of No Contact, I prefer Dark and sometimes it is in effect No Contact without the official boundary. I also don't advocate pursuing. That doesn't have to go with maintaining No Contact and yet sometimes the two get associated together.
And then comes stuff that feels conflicting: Truth Darts or Facing Monster (Not Fearing Monster) and Venting--When to Challenge. I see advice to not pursue--which is good, but then there is a twist either in how it is interpreted or the explanation and the advisee thinks they need to avoid Monster and so rather than diffuse they attempt to placate if they are in contact with their MLCer. This can lead to enabling or a silent but mutually-agreed upon secret-keeping. This is what Lingy did. I'm sure I wrote a blog post about her, but I just went and tried to find it and I can't find it anywhere--I'll keep looking. Oh, I think it was in the original newsletter and didn't get transferred. But I wrote about here too: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2419.msg153552#msg153552 Lingy's Story is a cautionary tale of the negative consequences of settling and secret-keeping.
 
Okay, I rambled a bunch and then re-reading Lingy's Story has me sad--she was so much more than a best friend to me. So I'm going to post this and go continue my project painting my new office in the basement--guess what colour?

[Thundarr]

So eloquently stated and summed up perfectly, RCR!!!   Thank you!!!!

And, yes, the controversy surrounding DSM-5 (trying to get in the habit of writing it that way as they've apparently broken off of Roman Numerals and I was chided by a friend for continuing to use them last night, lol) seems to be both valid and alarming.  Given the fact that it's solely a product of the American Psychiatric Association who are, of course, directly or indirectly associated with the drug companies I can see why many experts in other disciplines are skeptical of the changes and re-classifications.  Many would seem to open the door for expanded pharmacological treatment and the drug industry is a multi-billion dollar one that has quite a bit riding on professional adoption of the DSM-5.  There's an interesting post on my FB page between several of my colleagues and friends about the pros and cons and whether or not it might be best to switch to the ICD-9 given its global body of contributors rather than the *ahem* "special interest group" that edited the DSM-5.  But, I digress....

[Rollercoasterider]

I would NOT condone telling a newbie to brace for an OP because "all MLCers commit infidelity."

Agreed. Bracing implies you should expect it. Rather I think it important that we let people know that it is a distinct possibility because it is common in MLC. Help them prepare. Chuck self-disclosed to me and so I did not need anyone else to tell me it was a possibility. But at that time it was not yet physical and so I had a time-cushion for some mental preparation. Once the affair started I kept wondering when the freak-out would hit me--the movies of them together everyone kept talking about. I even asked in the live chat about dealing with that. But I did not ever have those images. That could be because I don't see in that way, or maybe being prepared and accepting of the process before it happened helped me--I don't know.

[forthetrees]

The "what to tell the newbies" question has some parallels with doctors telling or withholding from patients their diagnoses. It used to be that many drs. would not even tell an MS patient of the MS diagnosis to "protect them." Frankly, I find that patronizing and the LBS population seems to be the kind of folk that want to know what they are facing in order to plan and make rational decisions. Even outpatient surgical procedures have a possible death clause in there. I think it would be a disservice to pretend that it is going to be just fine. With the upfront knowledge of how long and hard the LBS journey is going to be, LBSers can take stock of their personal strength and decide if they have it within them to take the journey. If they know from the get go just how hard it will be, they could save themselves a whole lotta hurt. I hung in there for over a year and a half. Then h crossed a line for which I knew I could not forgive. Everyone´s line is in a different place. I think we all have compassion for these lost souls but at some point our own survival comes into play. Also, at some point we do give it up to a "higher" power. I think the sooner you step outta the way, the better for the LBser and the MLCer. Learning to do nothing seems to be the life lesson for the LBSer. Learning to do something seems to be the lesson for the MLCer. If there were to be a reconciliation, I suppose that a new balance would be found regarding the doing/not doing. The common MLC complaint seems to be that the LBSer was too controlling when the reality seems to be that the MLCer was habitually passive despite continual invitations to engage.

[OldPilot]

I mean it is an MLCforum by name. But that doesn't mean it is MLC and we all need to understand that there are a ton of infidelity situations that are not MLC and some of them are here.

I must admit that some of the early reconcilliations I believe are not MLC.
Of course our actions are the same one way or the other, so when it is just infidelity(which is still a BIG DEAL - IMHO) and the MLC seems to end fairly quickly, maybe it wasn't MLC at all.

Of course on DB in the infidelity forum their was a DOG (er - I mean person) that when I read his thread it screamed of MLC, and he advocated exposure of the affair because it worked for him. So it can swing both ways, that people are infidelity forums getting advice about MLC.

[trusting]

Of course on DB in the infidelity forum their was a DOG (er - I mean person) that when I read his thread it screamed of MLC, and he advocated exposure of the affair because it worked for him. So it can swing both ways, that people are infidelity forums getting advice about MLC.

LOL, I knew exactly who you were talking about.

[Ready2Transform]

Frankly, I find that patronizing and the LBS population seems to be the kind of folk that want to know what they are facing in order to plan and make rational decisions.

Agreed.  The tagline of the forum is Dealing with Midlife Crisis and Infidelity When You Don't Want a Divorce, so if a person has found it, more than likely already read postings, AND opted in to seek support, they understand that infidelity is an issue.  I also advocate throwing the "gift of time" out there.  It was the one thing that I didn't want to hear the most when I came here, but I am extremely grateful to the wonderful people who drilled it into me anyway as it has been the greatest healer of all. 

[honour]

I would NOT condone telling a newbie to brace for an OP because "all MLCers commit infidelity." 

But advising a newbie to brace for the shock of an OP is sound advice because in many cases an OP becomes a reality at BD or post BD. It is the reality for many if not most of the people who come to this forum and to other forums. Why keep the truth from the newbies when they will read it in the threads anyway?

You put "all MLCers commit infidelity." in quotes, is this an actual quote?

[Ready2Transform]

Oh and FTR as far as  I know my wife has never had an affair with a real person.
So does that  mean their was no infidelity?
After reading some other websites I have decided that infidelity can include just plain abandonment with no other person involved.

Honestly OP, if you don't have infidelity in the midst of this, don't force it on yourself.  It does take the pain and betrayal to another level.  It is bad enough that they abandon - believe me, I get that.  But I truly wish all I had to deal with was a liar and not also a cheater.

[honour]

When you get to the marital recovery phase you will be more detached than they are now and so you will be less sensitive (less, not immune) to triggering and flashbacks.

I recall OP saying there are a thousand registered members here; I can only think of a few that are in marital recovery, that being said, wouldn't the above quote read better if it began with an "IF" not a "When"? The "When" implies certainty i.e. it is just a matter of time. Is it wise to give the impression that marital recovery is a certainty?