[Stillpraying]

I agree AnneJ..even though it's just been 23 months since BD and finding out he was committing adultery @ 1 month prior to BD and his moving out..I keep my faith in God, but honestly, although I do forgive him (it's been a process, not an event)..there has been so much damage, I really don't know if I want him back anymore. I stand because I am the kind of person that is very loyal, but I have learned ALOT about my own fragile limits in all of this. It would at this point, I believe, take an act of God for him to come back, and for me to want him back at all..I don't really consider him a friend anymore..I have never had a friend screw me and our child over the way he has, just sayin'...

Couldn't have explained how I feel better myself.....  And was it Learning that said "the door is closed but not locked"

[Slow Fade]

Agree 1Cor.13. It would have to be God intervening in both of our lives for a r to be successful. One to bring my H back and one for me to open my heart to him again. But then, He is the Great Physician and the Healer of Broken Hearts. He can do anything. I trust God and I trust the process. Who knows.....

[1Cor.13]

Oh StillPraying,

I know exactily how you feel and all we can do is keep-prayin'..I am at a loss as to what God's plan is in all of this, I have handed that over too..In my humanity it just makes no sense at all.

Stay strong, Blessings,
1Cor.13

[1Cor.13]

Agree 1Cor.13. It would have to be God intervening in both of our lives for a r to be successful. One to bring my H back and one for me to open my heart to him again. But then, He is the Great Physician and the Healer of Broken Hearts. He can do anything. I trust God and I trust the process. Who knows.....

 Back at ya Slowfade, what else do we really have, but the Great Healer Himself? My prayers are for healing for all of us..in His time (the hard part, gulp)..

Stay strong, Be Blessed
1Cor.13

[toughtimes]

This is a really interesting discussion

I'm not a veteran, so I guess this is more of a newbie (I guess at just over a year since BD I'm still fairly new) observation.

Finding this forum was a life-line and I have always found the advice to be sound and realistic.  That realistic perspective has helped me - to detach and GAL.

Knowing that there is a timeline to Replay has helped me focus more on myself and be realistic about the contact that my H would make with me.  Rather than be something negative it's been valuable to have such an accurate timeline.  And I can see that it's accurate for my H, so far, and for those MLC-ers who are further down the road with this.  I do also trust that we are all capable of judging our own situations, but again I would like to say that the timeline has helped me to not get drawn back into the craziness of MLC.  That is a GOOD thing for an LBS.

I knew about my H's infidelity prior to finding this forum but infidelity is a real issue with MLC and to not mention it is to be unrealistic.

Since there isn't an actual medical diagnosis yet we do have to rely upon the experience of others.  It's all we have to go on right now.  There are so many parallels with our stories that it seems logical to conclude when we are dealing with MLC.

My experience of my mentor - Limitless - and other mentors and LBSs has been understanding, encouragement and support.  I can't overestimate the value of finding a place where people UNDERSTOOD what I was going through.  I wasn't mad!  I worry that if we start to tell any LBS who finds themselves here that they may just be experiencing an estranged spouse and to try some techniques that it may back-fire and they may feel in a worse place and also feel unsupported.  I would be concerned about creating that doubt.  If an LBS is not, in fact, experiencing a true MLC-er spouse they will report different behaviours and I would imagine they would eventually come to the realisation that it is different, themselves, when their experience and story doesn't resonate so much with other LBSs on the site.  Meanwhile at least they've had the support and a place to talk through their feelings and story - and GAL (which is something that can help anyone, regardless of an MLC spouse).

Whilst it fascinates me to find out more about MLC, from a medical perspective, I see this forum as a place to heal the LBS.

x

I agree CB, I found this site August 2012 and H left beginning of May 2012. I found it through googling narcissism then reading that narcissism is a typical trait in MLC and that led me to read an explanation on wikipedia of what MLC is all about. I then googled MLC and found this site and my jaw dropped to the floor as I read the articles. There was a huge sense of relief .... the self blame for me has been crippling and still is. When I can rationalise my Hs behaviour I feel less blame. My H has blamed me for the breakdown of our R, he cannot live with me anymore, he has been deeply unhappy for the past ten years possibly suffering with Stockholm Syndrome. I believed it. I have low days where I believe everything he says and then I come here to this forum and read the shared experiences and read RCRs articles and I cannot deny the similarities.

Thundarr, I am a newbie (just over a year since he left) and I spend every day questioning whether this is MLC or just a cr@p R that went on too long and neither of us were brave enough to end it. My H has said to me that is the case. He has said that he feels so angry that he is being made out to be the bad guy because he had the courage to end the R. Because I am more than willing to take the blame and look at my own behaviour and see that it was not good I believe him. And much of what he says has an element of truth, but as RCR says in her coaching .... it is still MLC.

Your point is that you are concerned that we are diagnosing MLC ourselves as spouses of MLCers and that others here are diagnosing it too but based upon what the LBS says. I totally agree that it's difficult to diagnose if our spouses are not here to put forward their stories. I say to everyone, but this is only my perspective, my Hs perspective is different and completely valid too.

But we cannot deny the facts of the case, my H changed over a number of years (Osb, it wasn't as dramatic as you describe, it was gradual and in and out and on and off for a while and then at BD3 he switched, suddenly absolutely convinced of his decision and nothing was going to dissuade him), he was manipulative, spending money, obsessed with his new business, was looking around for someone else and then started an affair with a younger employee who he had known for only a short time blah blah blah!

I feel sad that I didn't have any knowledge of  MLC in the early days, November 2010 ... I was foolish not to work on the R through counselling. I got individual counselling which didn't help. Had I been able to look at my Hs behaviour as MLC transition that could tip into MLC I would have behaved very differently. Sadly I saw his behaviour as selfish, narcissistic, arrogant, uncaring, self obsessed and contradictory to his beliefs. So I reacted against it and that was incendiary and pushed him further into his crisis.

Thanks to this site I can see it and reading so many books around the subject has helped me understand.

What I do struggle with daily, is accepting that this is MLC. A MLC diagnosis does give me hope. It makes me feel that I can entertain the idea of RCRs Ericksonian language "when he returns".

All we want is realism and honesty. If it is thought my H is not in MLC then I need to know. if he is MLC then it will impact greatly on how I deal with it. As a result of reading here and elsewhere I have dealt with everything very differently to how my friends and family have advised in RL.

[Slow Fade]

I saw his behaviour as selfish, narcissistic, arrogant, uncaring, self obsessed and contradictory to his beliefs.

TT you just described my H to a t. Its MLC.......

[xyzcf]

Galileo was excommunicated from the church  because he DARED to suggest that the earth revolved around the sun. There are still many many things that are not totally understood yet.

I WISH that I had known as a newbie that MLC was going to last so many, many years. Perhaps, I would not have wasted so many years thinking he would soon be home. As for the infidelity, it does seem to be very common in most MLC stories. Knowing this, has helped me to understand that this is not about me, not about out marriage and has allowed me to step aside and heal.

Those of us who believe in MLC ( and Thundaar I do not think that you believe in MLC ) can see that this is not a " typical" marriage breakup. We know our partners so well, that the behaviors which fit  the  " symptoms" that have been described in the literature by various authors who have studied MLC are too similar to just be a coincidence.

As for hope, Heartsblessing always stressed that there was always hope. I would never tell an LBSer to give up on hope, because that is what the world tells us.....that we are crazy to think that our spouses will ever return to us.

But the return stories both here and those I have heard in my real life, tell me that anything is possible. The story does not end until life does.

The LBSer can learn a great deal during this time if they allow themselves to let go of the concept that the only success is if their spouse returns. Even the loneliness that we so often express, can lead us to many new adventures, friends and interests.

My question, if you question the whole concept of MLC, then why are you  on this site?

[Anjae]

Galileo was excommunicated from the church  because he DARED to suggest that the earth revolved around the sun. There are still many many things that are not totally understood yet.

Yes he di. Very true, there is so much that is still not totally understood. It also valid for MLC, we don't understand it all and for me it has far more causes than identity/development issues.

I WISH that I had known as a newbie that MLC was going to last so many, many years. Perhaps, I would not have wasted so many years thinking he would soon be home.

So do why. And I wished someone had told me to divorce quick (or to go see a lawyer at once) to save the finances. I did not waste too many years thinking Mr J would soon be home but I thought it was a normal affair and soon he would return and things would be worked on. From a certain point on I realised it was going to take ages. Sadly I remained married and the finances suffer a huge blow.

I never thought the infidelity had anything to do with me but that was because I knew infidelity does not have to do with the person that is cheated upon but with the person that cheats.

Yes, we knew our spouses very well, and, then, this strange thing comes up. We know it is different. It is even different than a normal depression (those like me who have had a spouse suffer from normal depression know it is not the same thing.

Agree, the only success is not only if our spouse returns. As for hope, there is always hope. Always. That does not, and must not, prevent us from being realistic = MLC takes time. 

I also think, and in this I disagree with HB, that the LBS has the last word.

Well, if I question the whole concept of something I may still want to know about it. Being it to change my mind or to refute it. For example, in psychics (since you used Galileo  ) one may want to know everything about something we do not believe in order to refute it. But in finding knowledge about the subject we may also change our mind.

[toughtimes]

I never thought the infidelity had anything to do with me but that was because I knew infidelity does not have to do with the person that is cheated upon but with the person that cheats.

This is true but everyone, including the major R counselling service in our country RELATE, say that partners cheat because there is something wrong in the R. My Hs bf ex wife who was cheated on by her H said this to me too.

[calamity]

I never thought the infidelity had anything to do with me but that was because I knew infidelity does not have to do with the person that is cheated upon but with the person that cheats.

You were wise before your time!  I always thought, like many others, that there must have been something wrong in the relationship.