[Mermaid]

I'm rather late for this discussion, but I wanted to add my support for Thundarr's point of view, amd RCR's subsequent follow up. It's very easy for any of us to label someone's behaviour according to our perspectives and understanding, and there are dangers in that. That is my understanding of what he is saying.

He has a very sane and rational approach, just as RCR herself. This sanity is what attracted me to this site. This site also gives hope where others do not. It gives us a way of coping. It gives support, more than any other I've seen.

Yes, we do end up diagnosing our spouse. It's natural to try and make sense of the situation we are in. Some people take a more religious approach, other a more scientific one, but the idea of this site is that we move forward from our initial shock and hurt, grow, change.

But while we analyse our spouse's behaviour, and work on our own, it's worth remembering Thundar's point. We know something is wrong, something has changed beyond our control, and our spouse is not the person we remembered them to be. We may be able to fit their behaviour into the categories that we see here. It still does not mean that it's MLC. It is a crisis, and part of it is ours as we try to cope. But if we have expectations that they will follow some predefined pattern and emerge from their tunnel and subsequent stages like a butterfly from a crysalis, some of us will be very disappointed.

RCRs ideas are wise, and whatever I think about MLC or not, I continue to find this advice wise. Work on ourselves, detach and protect ourselves as much as possible from the spouses abhorrent behaviour, drop all expectations, and leave our spouse to make their own decisions. Not easy to do. If we do that, it won't matter if it is MLC, PD, or an invading alien.

[Braveheart]

I think the last thing we should give anyone is false hope, and there appears to be a lot of it on this forum. I don't think the word "When" should be used, because there is so little evidence here or on any other forum dealing with martial issues of this type that any great perecentage of MLC spouses ever do come back. All we can do is lay out what we've all dealt with and how we've got through this. The simple truth is once your spouse has abandoned the marriage and left, infidelity or not, your marriage is over.

I get that everyone loved their spouse, I'd have taken a bullet for mine, but to put your life on hold for years for one who clearly has abandoned you, your children, treated you with contempt and broken every vow is just as much an undiagnosed mental illness as MLC.

I feel it would be far more useful to tell people the truth, what their spouse is going through is most likely permanent, the person they knew is gone and they need to consider their marriage over. They need to be told any chance of R is exceedingly slim if it is a case of MLC and their best hope is to carry on as if this is their new reality.

[alwayshope]

Braveheart - you are brave, that is for sure.  I fear an onslaught coming your way...

[Anjae]

Not easy to do. If we do that, it won't matter if it is MLC, PD, or an invading alien.

No, not easy to do, Mermaid. No idea what PD is but an invading alien, well... that would be much more fun than MLC.  The between MLC difference and other disorders is that MLC is temporary.

Braveheart, no outlash from me. I too think we should be direct but I prefer when. When is not they will. If sounds negative. There is nothing wrong with hope. Hope is just that, hope.

All the knowledge we have about MLC tells us it is, in most cases, temporary, not permanent. Of course there will be cases where it will become permanent. But there are always exceptions in every situation.

Also, the main concern is that the LBS manages to be well and move on/forward. No need to put life on hold because of an MLCer. What we have to do is to heal.

Some of us think that, at times, there is too much emphasis in getting spouse/marriage back and not enough on the LBS life. But it has already been said here on the board often that success does not = spouse/marriage back. it = a healed LBS with a new life, with or without former MLC spouse.

Of course we would all prefer to have our spouses and marriages back. Or until a certain point we would, as time goes by some of us tend to remarry or have a new life and the door for the MLCer is closed, but we know not all marriages with an MLC spouse will survive.

Normally they don't survive because the LBS has closed the door.

[calamity]

I feel it would be far more useful to tell people the truth, what their spouse is going through is most likely permanent, the person they knew is gone and they need to consider their marriage over.

The trouble with this, we don't know what the truth is.  There is very little data & how could there be if the professionals don't even recognize mlc? 

I think we have a good balance on this forum judging from the discussion on this thread. 

I hope my h comes through this & I do know of reconciliations in real life but, I wouldn't bet the farm on it!

Anne PD is personality disorder.

[Dontgiveup]

I feel it would be far more useful to tell people the truth, what their spouse is going through is most likely permanent

source?

[Anjae]

Thank you Calamity.

Personality Disorders are permanent, MLC for all we know (our truth, it could be said) in most cases is not.

I think we know a bit about MLC. If scientists made studies with samples of little over 100 people, we have more people here and we know stories from others than allow us to have some ideas about what we are dealing with and what normally happens.

MLC has been studied by some psychologist, namely by Elliot Jacques that coined the term. Prior Jung also studied the subject. But their studies are more focused on the personality change, they do not searched for neuro or hormonal causes.

Most people, even therapists and doctors, still don't take MLC serious but I think we are gathering enough data and info to know it is very real and how, in average, it behaves.

[FindingJoJo]

I think the last thing we should give anyone is false hope, and there appears to be a lot of it on this forum. I don't think the word "When" should be used, because there is so little evidence here or on any other forum dealing with martial issues of this type that any great perecentage of MLC spouses ever do come back. All we can do is lay out what we've all dealt with and how we've got through this

.

When is not giving false hope.

The simple truth is once your spouse has abandoned the marriage and left, infidelity or not, your marriage is over.

Only you can decide when your marriage vows have ended no one else, not even the spouse that left can do that.  Your marriage and commitment to your vows are only over when you say it is.  Depending on your beliefs here is when the marriage ends, divorce means the contract between you, your spouse and the state has ended.  It does not mean however that your promises to each other nor the vows to God have ended.  Your spouse does have a choice to leave but we have the power to live by our own standards and value

I get that everyone loved their spouse, I'd have taken a bullet for mine, but to put your life on hold for years for one who clearly has abandoned you, your children, treated you with contempt and broken every vow is just as much an undiagnosed mental illness as MLC.

I find it interesting that you mention you would take a bullet for your spouse yet standing for ones belief in marriage seems wrong to you?  No one here is advocating putting life on hold at all.  GALing is not putting your life on hold in fact it is quite the opposite.  If you are standing for your marriage the only thing on hold is marriage to another, sex with another person, dating and all that goes with that, but life nope.  No one's life should be that dependent on another person anyway.

I feel it would be far more useful to tell people the truth, what their spouse is going through is most likely permanent, the person they knew is gone and they need to consider their marriage over. They need to be told any chance of R is exceedingly slim if it is a case of MLC and their best hope is to carry on as if this is their new reality.

  Eventually people do merge into the new person they are meant to be.  Just because that new person who has finally been delivered from crisis has now changed and still doesn't want the marriage doesn't mean they are permanently in crisis.  I think it is safe to say that the old marriage is over, however the bond, the connection and the marriage aren't over until we determine that it is. 

RCR edited to correct coding on quote.

[forthetrees]

Something to ponder:

Lastest research on women and menopause confirms, with brain studies, the mood and memory/concentration changes.

This week there was an article on a guy with Cotard´s syndrome- (spelling might be off) who felt like a zombie and would hang out in graveyards. They did a PET scan of his brain and sure enough, it was that of someone under anesthesia or in a coma. Brain change. With meds and other Rx, he can now function much better and only occasionally feels weird.

I think we are close to MLC being detected on brain scans and biomarkers. While the brain is quite flexible, it can also develop ingrained patterns.

I think we hang in there for so long b/c the personality changes in the MLCer are so drastic and we just cannot believe that that persona is now the spouse. In my case, he just keeps getting crueler and wants complete control over communication- won´t respond to email even though he has stated (via email) that that is the only method he will use. For me, I see him as off the deep end and I just want to be legally disconnected. When his actions reach the point where they are injurious to me, I don´t care what is causing his crisis- I just want to be safe.

[crazyjourney]

So here it is whilst we are believing/not believing in mlc along comes Cotards Syndrome (walking corpse syndrome) in the news.

How the heck can they manage to label and identify this and yet not mlc.

This is a good thread by the way, interesting views.

Wow you beat me to it, pour post came up as I was sending mine FTT.

Just how dangerous are our brains if they have a malfunction.

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