[Shark eyes comes up a lot on this forum. It is a flat affect in the eyes that often appears around bomb drop and especially accompanied by lack of empathy or conscience. Some research I have been doing has led me to wonder: Is the shark eye more pronounce]

Shark eyes comes up a lot on this forum. It is a flat affect in the eyes that often appears around bomb drop and especially accompanied by lack of empathy or conscience. Some research I have been doing has led me to wonder: Is the shark eye more pronounce

Right Eye

1 (3.1%)

Left Eye

0 (0%)

Both Eyes

29 (90.6%)

Unsure

1 (3.1%)

No Shark Eyes

1 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Voting closed: October 17, 2016, 07:04:22 PM

[Returned]

I am a little curious as to others opinions on this. Since BD one of the biggest changes has been the lack of eye contact. Why do MLCers shun eye contact?

[Dontgiveup]

Below is some insight from RCR on the topic

That lack of eye-contact is part of the script. The ancient Greeks believed the eyes were the window to the soul. You know a person by looking into their eyes. He knows that you know him so well that you will see directly into his soul and know what is going on—his fears, his thoughts, his indiscretions… and looking into the eyes is a way of connecting on an intimate level. LBSs often think their MLCers are avoiding eye contact out of guilt or shame—and they probably are—but they are also doing it because they are afraid of the connection and do not want to be pulled back in. They fear their own lack of will power.

[Songanddance]

Before BD I knew there was something wrong as my H couldn't look me in the face for weeks.
I also know from teaching that if a child cannot look at you when you ask them about homework or anything straightforward like that - there is usually something up and wisdom invariably says guilt. Not always but usually.
What I found fascinating is RCR's comment in one of her brilliant articles that as MLCers become proficient liars they are able to have eye contact again - so true for my situation. But at least I'm a little more guarded now rather than hoping his eye contact is a way of connecting.
I do miss the really proper eye contact from earlier days though when it made you feel safe and protected.

[living with Hope]

Mine cycles through the no eye contact.  I have noticed that when he really wants me to believe him and his lies, he stares me in the eyes intently.  It is like a stare down.  At first it unnerved me.  It still does to some extent but I am getting used to staring back just as intently.   I have moments of where he can talk to me normally and employ eye contact or I have moments where he cannot look at all in my direction. Those moments are clues that he is up to no good or the running away is starting again. 

I truly believe it is a combination of shame/guilt and the fact that he knows that if he looks me in the eye, he will see "me" not the evil person he has made me out to be or maybe he is worried about what I will see in his eyes.  At the beginning, there was nothing to see in those eyes. They were just dark.

[Anjae]

If they look us in the eye we would know they are lying and unhappy. But we still know they are lying and unhappy, so, it is one of those strange things MLCers do.

But RCR article DGU post pretty much says it all.

[Returned]

Okay any ideas on how to get eye contact...?

I know this sounds silly
but I am not sure about this "nothing we can do will help" thing
I tend to think it is more like: we haven't figured out how to help....
Somehow I feel if I could get eye contact we could connect better...

[Dontgiveup]

but I am not sure about this "nothing we can do will help" thing

RCR's blog Influence: Making A Difference

http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=360

[living with Hope]

LOTH - I hear you on the trying to help and if we had some form of contact we could connect better.

 My spouse has cut off phone contact and only communicates by text (or email if he really is angry at me) with me and the children.  He will answer the children if they call, he usually does not answer mine.  I know why.  My husband and I can solve the world's problems on the phone.  He worked so much that this was our main way of communicating during his peak work times. We would talk up to 7 to 10 times a day.  I know that he does not call me because we would be able to connect.  He does not want that connection right now.  I think a lot of it is shame/guilt driven.  He has admitted that last fall during his moment of wanting to repair/clarity. 

Lack of eye contact too is a way of not connecting.

I wish that more was known or recognized within the medical profession so that there was ways to help those who are in the midst of this crisis.  I know the first few individual counsellors I saw did not recognize and just wanted me to get a divorce to save me from this emotional abuse.  It was like banging my head on a wall saying that there was something wrong with my husband. He didn't make sense.  This was not a bad marriage.

But as you can see from this forum alone - that all different techniques have been used and it just seems like it is time that works.  Brutal.

[Returned]

Indeed my suspicion is that it is fear of connecting. They are afraid of their own feelings....

[CruiseControl]

My H would not make eye contact for the first few months and his eyes would dart wildly around.  Now he makes eye contact most of the time.  H has changed though, is more certain that we are through.....and he has OW, though he doesn't seem to be manic right now and he usually is when he is with her.  One thing my H has.....very constricted pupil all the time.  This apparently means either extreme mental stress, or hatred!  Something to think about.