[Dontgiveup]

I read about a timeframe in reference to the trigger somewhere, but I can't remember where.  Seems like it referenced approximately 12-36 months.  Three years is about the timeframe for my MLCer as well.....it might have been closer to four.....but it was in that range.

[Trustandlove]

 2.5 years before BD was the trigger in my MLCers case, I believe....

[LoveMeMyself]

I believe the trigger was 2 to 2 1/2 years before BD as well.  His mom passed away, he retired from one job and started another job (which he hates)...........thus I feel like these two major events pushed him into MLC. 

[With Gods Help!]

Hi everyone i know keep posting these articles and your probably sick of them lol but i post them because sometimes although much of this as been said different ways of putting them sometimes helps others understand xxxxxxxxxx


Detach from Outcomes

find happiness Our relationships with other people are the main sources of our happiness and also the biggest causes of our heartaches.

The heartaches happen when we expect certain outcomes from our relationships: that our children do as we say, that our partners show love the way we want them to, that our friends agree to our requests, that the person we love reciprocates our feelings.

While letting go of expectations goes a long way to living a joyful life, this is hard for many people to do. Detaching from outcomes may perhaps be easier. How do we do this?

1. Identify possible outcomes

Many of the issues that we obsess over usually have only two possible outcomes: either you get the job or you don’t, either she will come back to you or she won’t, either he will ask you out or he won’t.
2. Plan the best action in each case

Funnily enough, the best action no matter which outcome actually happens tends to be the same. This also tends to be the best way we can treat ourselves in any case. I’ll use romantic relationships as an example as this seems to be a major cause of heartache for most people.
Example 1

After a break-up it is very common to hope that the other person comes back to us. If she comes back, then there is no need to grieve and your best action is to continue exercising etc so you’ll be in great shape when she sees you again. If she does not come back, your best action is to continue exercising through your grief so you’ll be in great shape to start dating other people.
Example 2

If he asks you out, your best action is to continue hanging out with your friends so you remain objective, strengthen your friendships, and remain your own person. If he doesn’t ask you out, your best action is to continue hanging out with your friends so you get to meet people instead of sitting at home waiting for him to call.
3. Focus on the action

Once we realise that the outcome makes no difference to our best course of action, we can focus on the action which is within our control, rather than the outcome which is outside our control.

This brings two key benefits: the confidence that we are in control of our lives bolsters our esteem, and our actions often bring tangible external benefits like new friends or a better appearance. This gives a double boost to happiness.
Bonus outcomes

Besides making ourselves happier what we detach from outcomes, we also release those around us from the need to produce our desired outcomes. This frees them to be themselves, to live their own lives freely and joyfully instead of trying to fulfill some need in ours.

And very often, our detachment from outcomes and the joy it brings makes us attractive to others who then want to be around us. By detaching from what we want, we very often get what we used to want. And even if we don’t get it, it doesn’t matter because we’ve taught ourselves not to want.

When we detach from outcomes, the heartaches evaporate and the joy remains.

[LifeGoesOn]

From Daniel Amen's newsletter today:


Brains Acting Badly: A New Twist on an Old Question


“Faced with the recent surge of sex scandals, I have found myself holding back, not wanting to comment. They happen all the time, but somehow this season seems different, worse,” begins the article I wrote for the Huffington Post last week, on June 8, 2011.

“The ex-governor of California had his family torn apart by an affair he had a decade ago; the IMF leader was arrested for an alleged assault on a hotel maid; Senator John Edwards was recently indicted on cover-up charges related to his affair; and now married congressman Anthony Weiner admits to tweeting his genitals!

“Why are so many men acting badly? The easy answer is to just say that these men are high-testosterone-driven cheaters who choose to make bad decisions. They should be divorced, scorned and ridiculed. They should just say no and stop being so stupid, we think.

“But as a neuroscientist who has scanned tens of thousands of patients’ brains over the last 20 years, many of whom were sex addicts, I know the brain tells a different story.”

Below is the rest of the article, in total.

There is an area in the front part of the brain called the prefrontal cortex. It is also known as the executive brain because it acts like a boss at work. It is involved in forethought, judgment, impulse control, organization and planning. When there are problems in this part of the brain, men in particular are excitement-seeking and prone to exhibit poor judgment. And what is more exciting than illicit sex or tweeting your genitals?

I was on the “Dr. Phil” show last year for a feature we did on compulsive cheaters. I did a brain SPECT (single photon emission computed tomography) scan on Jose, who had cheated on his wife eight times in the four years they were together. His brain showed very low activity in his prefrontal cortex. He also had a brain injury pattern from playing football and mixed martial art fighting. From seeing his own scan, Jose developed brain envy and wanted a better brain. He did not want to be divorced and have his daughter raised by someone else. He did everything I asked.

Cheaters often experience the pain of rejection from their behavior and, with enough pain, can become motivated to change. Jose changed his habits, improved his nutrition, took some simple supplements to boost brain function and has not cheated on his wife for over a year. His follow-up brain scan also looked dramatically better. As we changed his brain, we also changed his life.

So what do we do with all these cheating men? Should we yell at them, belittle them, scold and scorn them? Or should we scan their brains? I think we should start by looking at their brains. How would we ever know if it was just bad behavior or a brain acting badly unless we looked? Psychiatrists, whom these people come to see for help, are the only medical professionals who rarely look at the organ they treat. Psychiatrists still make diagnoses today as they did in 1841, when Abraham Lincoln was depressed: by talking to people and looking for symptom clusters. Imagine if a cardiologist or an orthopedic doctor acted that way!

If the cheating man’s brain is healthy, then he should just deal with the fallout of his poor judgment and learn to behave better. If, however, he has brain dysfunction (as is often the case), perhaps from a brain injury in the past (a barbell dropped on his head, for example), or other prefrontal cortex problems (such as ADHD), then getting a brain makeover with appropriate treatment is essential. Just making these men, who have real brain dysfunction, feel more guilt and shame will not help solve their problems.

Your brain controls everything you do and all the decisions you make. When the brain works correctly, you work correctly. When the brain is troubled, you are much more likely to make troubled decisions. Whenever human frailties are involved, think about the brain. In our experience, with a thoughtful approach, the brain can be better, which will ultimately be better for the whole family.

Resource: The Huffington Post, June 8, 2011. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-amen-md/why-men-cheat_b_872564.html

6 Comments
1.
Dr. Rhea Orion
Posted June 21, 2011 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

Dr. Amen, i agree that as a psychologist – id love to be able to examine the brains of many of my patients – people who’ve experienced many kinds of trauma in their lives and are still experiencing emotions and behaviors that interfere with happy, healthy lives and relationships. But how CAN i examine their brains? Most of us clinicians out here do not have access to brain scan equipment nor even know where we would send a patient for one. If I knew where to send them, would they be able to pay for it? i KNOW the brains of most people i see have some injury and hold keys to understanding and correcting problems. I want the brain scan info = how can i get it?

Best regards,
Rhea Orion, PhD, CSC


2.
marty
Posted June 21, 2011 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

What type nutrition are you recommending for low activity in the prefrontal cortex?


3.
Debra Lowe
Posted June 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

What kind of supplements would you recommend to men that suffer with these issues?


4.
Gena
Posted June 21, 2011 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

I would like information on the prefrontal cortex and what supplements aide in its function.


5.
Kathy Kimtis
Posted June 21, 2011 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

I had a cheating husband. Men who are sabbotaging their marriages– Why do they think they will not get caught. It is narcicism and a sense of entitlement….plain and simple. Don’t look at the brain so closely. It is pure indulgence and a lack of committment to the vow that they made. So PLEASE don’t try to make “brain” excuses for these dogs. Women cheat too. Is it because of their brains? People cheat because they are bored with marital sex… Plain and simple, they want the rush that comes with flirting, clandestine lunches which finally leads up to sex (oh, they don’t know how it happened!!!) that is such bull!! They are selfish human beings, willing to risk their families’ happiness for a fling or two– or hundred in my husband’s case. Stoop making excuses for them. whatever happened to good old fashioned will power, not to mention the thought that you are risking hurting the person who loves you the most. These are people who need to grow up, not have their brains examined. Dr Amen, I am surprised at you!!!


6.
Margaret
Posted June 21, 2011 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

Having been married and now divorced to a physician namely an orthopaedic surgeon who was a pathological adulterer I do have to question whether all medical residents need to have their heads examined, literally speaking. Doctors have an extremely high rate ofadultery especially the higher up in Godsmanship that you go (surgeons vs family care). So many families destroyed on account of this. Should the medical profession weed out applicants into medical school based on brain scans or enroll them into a brain improvement program. Don’t you new your prefrontal cortex to make operating decisions? Some of the best surgeons I’ve known have also been the worst marital offenders. The new medical professionals entering the field really need some help as I witnessed an enormous amount of debauchery within the circle I was in. It would be a service to the medical profession since there is an increasing hypocrisy of “do no harm oaths” yet much harm IS being done to families destroyed by adultery within the medical profession. I think Dr Amen is a leader and can really make some changes. For those of us who work in the healthcare field and with many unpleasant physicians please get their heads examined!

[truth_seeker]

Many of you may have already read this via the divorcebusting site but thought it would be of benefit here as well.  Good reminder if you're on the fence about your M or not. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-weinerdavis/the-biggest-divorce-dont-_b_787677.html

[HeartsBlessing]

INNER HEALING, the FINAL stage of the JOURNEY of MLC

****I retrieved this from the alt; as I'd written this as the board was in preparation of being moved over to a new server, and so, now, I've moved it all over here with some edits for continuity.****


Ok, you guys and gals, the title of this discourse is "The End of everything; and everything comes to a total End"..a fitting title, I think, because it will describe from the end of the Settling Down Process the final 6 months..and guess what? This is one of my last discourses on the crisis...I have covered the entire crisis from beginning to end..in various puzzle pieces; there's more hindsight that I see; and that's one thing, but I feel the pressure to share what I'm seeing in this last phase lasting 6 months; and that is the ONLY sure time that you will ever see written by me.


All righty then, this is not exactly a formal writing; and there's no real "mystery" about it; but most of you remember what happened when my husband came out of the Settling Down Process in late February of 2011; just before that happened, he withdrew suddenly and completely for two weeks, and during that time he went through a total facing that involved in full all that he had done; my part in it; and the Lord shamed him deeply for how he had treated me; but he also finished healing the wounds of his issues, most especially the deep abiding wound of his final issue; which was his parent's divorce at age 7..

At the end of this; it was suddenly, that he picked up again in contact with me and our son; and our lives began to go forward; and since then, I have seen the steady positive change in him; that has not looked back...and this is good, a blessing, and I had thought, that it was all this would be, thanked the Lord; for His great mercy, and had walked right along; all the while dealing with all of the emotional changes I knew were necessary for him to continue finishing himself.

Little did I know; there's one more step, LOL, and it actually surprised me when the Lord happened along around two weeks ago, and informed me that my husband was within the "final finishing phase" that would last a total of six months; no more, and no less; this particular time having begun right when he had finished his Settling Down Process..and I do remember thinking "Huh?"

He explained that this final phase dealt with 'self healing' of the SELF INFLICTED wounds they inflict within when they turn on their LBS, their children, their families, friends, etc...NOT to be confused with the wounds of their issues which are ALREADY healed; because, these were healed during the Settling Down Process(Unless, of course, any Issues were set aside and these were trying to be bypassed; which brings on other problems, but that's another story)

There ARE differences to the degree of self inflicted wounds; some have minor wounds, some have major, but ALL WILL HEAL....there are NO exceptions, no "carrying out" of anything...this is the ending of ALL endings...nothing more will be required afterward except to live and experience life.

I tried to argue, because I really didn't remember; that I had not faced and done that...He simply said "Yes, you DID;" and then He proceeded to pour the necessary memories back into my mind of both my Settling Down Process, AND this Final Finishing Phase...and I was forced to conclude that I, too, had to gone through that final processing and metamorphosis, ALSO for 6 months, no more, no less.

I had always explained that each time a MLC'er turns on the LBS, family, etc. doing and saying the things they do, did, and say; they DAMAGE THEMSELVES; and though intuitively, I knew it was true; I had NO clue when or how they healed themselves....the Lord would always have me detail healing of the wounds due to the issues within; but I don't recall Him ever having me detail how or when they heal the self inflicted damage they do to THEMSELVES..that was because my own situation had NOT reached that point; and some things I wasn't shown ahead of time; because for one, it was set in stone to happen, and two, there wasn't anything I could have done to bring it on any faster; not that I would have wanted to; but there could be no anticipation; not like there is, now that I KNOW the total end is just a little over a month away; and all I have to do now, is wait and watch for him.

This final phase is after ALL other healing has occurred; and this last and final healing WILL occur; there is NO chance by then, when they have made it that far; that they will run or hide; because by then they will be that well aware of what they must do; and most importantly they will be more than capable of getting it done and walking right across the finish line; coming out of the Chrysalis; CHANGED forever into what they have, and were supposed to become.

The caterpillar FINALLY becomes the BEAUTIFUL butterfly.

You see, it's all in step and finally, I see an order of things in the aspect of the healings that must occur; the issues and wounds associated with the issues must be resolved and healed FIRST during the actual crisis, continuing and finishing that aspect within the Settling Down Process; then comes the process of the Self Inflicted wounds to be healed during Total Inner Healing; and this completes within the six months that follows AFTER the Settling Down Process is finished; after that six month period afterward, the crisis is DONE, finished, complete......do NOT confuse these..they are TWO SEPARATE events connected with the crisis...but the total inner healing involves the added component of completing the finishing of them as whole people physically and emotionally; completing the metamorphosis into their becoming that beautiful butterfly...and this is worth waiting for, no matter how long it takes.

It's like a cabinet or a dresser that gets "stripped" down to the wood, sanded, varnished, and the final coat gets put on for a beautiful finish...this takes time, sometimes a lot of it, depending on how many coats of original varnish needs to be stripped off, and the imperfections that need to be filled in and worked on..you think about this, and much work is put in to get the result...this is another way of describing a MLC'er who gets worked over during the crisis..GOD does His part as He should IF you allow Him to; yet, at the same time, YOU get worked on, too...it's much the same process there, as well.

But once it's all complete, you enjoy the beauty of the finished work for years to come.

Food for thought, and another way of explaining the process of MLC in a nutshell using woodwork for an example.

And for questions I know always comes, LOL..the answer is NO, they do NOT run from this; in fact, they CANNOT and won't even try, and YES, they DO face this in full..and NO, there is NO 4th of July fireworks, and YES, there is a sense of even deeper peace that you'll sense from them as they continue to heal themselves; in fact you'll perceive them growing closer to you as each self inflicted wound within is healed, and yes, it DOES involve FINALLY forgiving themselves..don't ask me how; but the Lord did show me my husband reaching forgiveness of himself which is critical for going into the future WITHOUT guilt or shame.

He says this is true of ALL who reach this FINAL point/ending of the journey...nothing is left within to resolve; ALL is resolved in full within those aspects; there's a true devotion; a true humanity, and a deep and true connection that forges and most of all, they become proper Godly spouses; although still not perfect; but no one ever is, or ever will be.

In further description of what I'm seeing currently as of July 17, 2011:

One more thing; I have been instructed to stay open for him; he may or may not talk to me once more; but I don't expect it to happen at all..although I have observed him having a lot of nausea, and restless nights; this is all part of it; as his self inflicted wounds continue to heal within...above all, I've been instructed NOT to push him in any way; and there are aspects I'm beginning to see where I'm NOT to push him at all; and he's really not doing anything wrong.

I just see him distancing some, coming closer, distancing again in various aspects..and some of it is irritating me in some ways that I won't go into here...I think it is in these type of life aspects I'm not to push him; because the Lord wasn't clear in how I was NOT to push him, I think it's more emotionally than physically; nothing bad; but it could breed conflict where it's not important; and cause friction in areas that would take time to smooth across... if I pushed him in certain aspects that are not really that important..anyway, it's personal for me and for him...and between us two old chickens, LOL!!


It's a strange thing to know the straightforward descriptions I spent years writing are done; well, we KNEW an ending had to come, sometime.

I do, indeed have ALL the pieces now, and the picture is crystal clear to me; and I see where one piece has locked into another; creating the big picture I see in front of me...I realize that most of what I've described has been what I've seen personally, but I've found my descriptions has not been that much different from what people saw later as they walked behind me....there HAS been some differences, sure, owing for the differences in people, but the basic concepts of what is supposed to be seen, have NOT been that different.

The Stages themselves were/are actually a template of sorts written as a guide to help, and are seen more clearly by one within the hindsight that kicks in later, rather than foresight; yet, for someone like me, who has been there; one of the ways I could see where most people were and are; was because of having been there; seen many things; but the Lord was instrumental within me, helping me to be able see more clearly as time went on.

Yet, the Lessons written were and are UNIVERSAL, applying to BOTH LBS AND the MLC'er...each INDIVIDUAL person learns the SAME lessons..no exceptions...and these lessons, like the issues faced by the MLC'er and the LBS during the crisis must be learned in FULL, change must be COMPLETE..as in complete overhaul in those aspects....some "old" may stay, but it should not be much at all...usually the majority of the "old" must be shed, because it will NOT work in the "new" marriage; conflict will arise; and it should in order to work out the final details of the "new" marriage that comes.

You may reconcile or start over many times during the crisis, and even into the final phases of this..but that's OK, too, because this is where growth, change, becoming is still ongoing, and all is getting rebuilt from ground up..and if the foundation is not right; it gets torn down once again to the bare ground, and started again...I remember that happening several times during this entire time.

In all that I have preached, taught, bulldozed, been flamed for, LOL etc...one thing has remained constant; CHANGE WILL COME; like it or not; and you'll need to go right with it; as it's for your own good; NOT for the good of others...YOU, and the people around you, who will benefit from the "new" you; and you'll feel much better because you took the time to just "do it"....

In closing, the road is long and hard, the obstacles seem insurmountable; and the crisis seems like it will last forever; but remember this one thing if you don't remember ANYTHING else; the Lord is there, will always be there; He will help you with all that you need inside and out; and once you learn to connect with Him on this deeper level; you've a great companion, friend, and Father to be with you on your journey to wholeness and healing; so you will be ready when your NEW spouse comes out of the crucible for good.

[Bewildered]

HB

This I too agree is very insightful into the journey - which so many of us are not yet at and hopefully will help us understand if we are lucky to reach this stage?

Acceptance and Reconciliation would be good to have guidance on - appreciate we have some information  but a more detailed  picture of how to recognise these stages I feel would be invaluable??
B x

[HeartsBlessing]

Acceptance and Reconciliation would be good to have guidance on - appreciate we have some information  but a more detailed  picture of how to recognise these stages I feel would be invaluable??

The description of the stage of Acceptance is on the prior page of this thread; along with the Settling Down Process. As the crisis winds down into the final stage of Acceptance; you should be able to see more clearly as you set the "template" of the previous 5 stages across your situation; only then, will you see Acceptance as it's played out in your situation.   That's also what Hindsight will do; it will show you clearly; just as it did me, what has occurred beforehand.

Always check yourself as you watch your MLC spouse; and make sure that you're doing what you are supposed to be doing; and it's NOT continuously watch your MLC spouse...that's being TOO focused on them, and not enough on you.

I'm sorry, I can't give you a clear picture/description of Reconciliation, no one really can; as it's ongoing once the MLC'er begins to try again with the LBS; this is truly a multi faceted aspect that is as unique as the couples that enter into it.

You need to also bear in mind that once the MLC spouse ends their affair, goes through the affair partner withdrawal associated with this ending, and turns back to you to try again; the crisis is NOT over; there is still a long way to go before it all ends...so, don't make the mistake of thinking it's over when it's not.

Within Reconciliation, each person gives as they can; each person receives as they are able.

You don't get everything from me, you're not supposed to...some things you must navigate on your own; and this aspect is something I haven't been given clear Insight on, therefore, all I can tell you is as follows:

As a matter of fact, I found it came naturally, as my journey to wholeness and healing taught me much about what I needed from my husband in order to help him to rebuild our marriage...it was a process of leading, then following, then leading, then following......and we negotiated with each other for what we wanted within our relationship.  But we were rebuilding OUR relationship; not creating one that was "tailor made" from a "script".

Some things I really can't give you; you've been provided with the tools, the stages, the lessons, and clear directions to take the journey; what you do with all these things is then, up to you; not me or anyone else.

By the time you begin the aspect of Reconciliation; you'll know so much more about yourself, your MLC spouse, your past marriage; and only then, will you be able to set the "rules" for reconciliation for your OWN relationship.

Keep walking the journey to wholeness and healing; rest assured this journey doesn't just stop because reconnecting/reconciliation begins to happen for you and your MLC spouse.

All you need to really remember is this: If your journey to wholeness and healing doesn't complete within you, or if the MLC'er's journey doesn't complete within them; you're looking to do this again at a later time from a different aspect.  BOTH MUST FINISH their respective journeys, although reconciliation will begin long before these finishings complete themselves; that is ALSO part of the journey that should run to completion within both people.

Both people continuing to work toward the finish lines within both journeys is the only way you'll reach what you're seeking; Patience, Hyperglad, and even BonBon are good examples of the continuing work that's being done in an ongoing way.   

These ladies are still working on themselves, as their MLC spouses are still working on themselves, and reconciliation, and even some aspects of reconnecting are occurring within each of these situations.   Yet, even these situations are so different that I don't have a certain "script" to read from; or even to be guided from so I can help them.

Their situations are unique, as they should be; and I'm having to go by what I'm being shown by my Intuition; not so much by Insight within in a "case by case" analysis as I try and keep up with their various problems that crop up from time to time.

This happened for me, too, I had to continue working on me, as my husband was still working on himself; and we worked on "us" in between.   This ongoing process was the only way I could reach what I was seeking in the way of information regarding these two aspects, but what I got applied to US; not another couple. 

The only other thing I can say with a certainty is that it's a long and hard process,(not as long as the crisis/LBS journey; but time is always a factor in rebuilding) as each person begins to bring nearly all new aspects within to the table of the new marriage that's rebuilding; these have to be adjusted to, and, in time,  from the fires of the crisis and the LBS journey, a new marriage will emerge; rebuilt, and fortified from the foundation up, to better withstand what life will certainly begin to throw at the couple in the way of challenges and obstacles, once again; some old, some new, and some, they will solve together, and some they'll solve as individuals.

Life then becomes a series of ongoing problems to solve each and every day; and if the couple is well equipped; they will take each problem in hand, and resolve each one successfully with what they've learned.

The Lord/my Intuition guided me through this particular aspect; the same guidance I trained all of you to develop early within the crisis...knowing you would need this tool much later; even though it's used during the crisis itself.  Only God knows each couple fully; and what they need; and He deals with them just as He deals with various individuals within the various aspects they have need of.

NO two couples are the same; each one has to blaze their OWN trail of life.

This is the best I can do with this aspect.

[Bewildered]

HB

Many thanks for your views and they are helpful and useful as a flexible guide ... the process does become more difficult to keep in your mind (I think) as the MLC moves forward and the time it takes begins to make you even more detached ...  so I will as I am sure others will keep this post of yours at hand for reference ... if and when this stage starts to happen

B xx